TowRig.com - Diesel Discussion and Tow Tech

Looks like chevy is ahead of the pack again...:D:D:D

2006 Allison 6 Speed Features (http://www.lubricationspecialistllc.com/allison06.pdf)

John

Kinda surprising that they didn't already have it, since I'm told the Allison 1000 has everything for 6 speed except a servo or two. And does that mean the GM trucks are basically getting the 2000? Which, IIRC, is just the 1000 with 6 speeds enabled and higher pressures. Been a long time since I did the reading on the trans, so that may not be completely accurate...

Not sure if its the 2000 or not. I "thought" the 2000 did not have a parking pawl, but I cant remember...(getting too old:o:D)

John

Hmmm, seems like I remember that too. Or was that the 2200? <shaking head> I'm getting too old too...

Looks like the alison wont be the only improvement for 2006.

CLICK HERE (http://www.gm-diesel.com/diesel/vbull/showthread.php?t=11283&highlight=700)

Im sure some of you have already heard this, but others may have not.

I could be wrong, but I thought the 2006 truck in question was a limited addition high performance model and not the normal production diesel. :confused:

Seems like it, but still, 700 ft/lbs of torque from the factory. Waranty and all.:D

1) I don't really see the need for a 6 spd auto. It's another gear that is shifted in and out of all the time and jacks the rebuild price up even more with yet another gear to rebuild. When combined with the torque converter lock up I would think a 5spd is plenty, especially when the Dmax is supposed to have this big fat powerband anyway. Heck, Im happy with m 4spd auto behind my cummins that has a narrow power band. I wouldn't mind having one more gear in my tranny but not a two more gears.

2)I personally don't see the need for more power than what is available currently. With current '05's being over 300HP and 600 ft lbs....thats a LOT of power regardless of how much someone is into the hop-up craze. Heck my truck is only 235/460 but it honestly is plenty for most resonable loads. The manufacturers need to be thinking about what weight class these trucks are, LIGHT DUTY.

3) Eventually the manufacturers are going to kill the BOMBing craze from the aftermarket suppliers. Back in the early 90's when the cummins had a rating of 175/400 it left a HUGE margin for bombing but with basically the same block making say 350/700 now...that leaves a lot LESS room for BOMBing fun before things start to get unreliable. I like seeing the guys using non stock turbo's, injectors, etc. to get numbers WAY higher than stock but with this idea of 700ft lbs+ we would definantly be running out of room for cool mods.

I thought my 05 already had a 6speed Ally? (without the + - and the "M" I saw in the pic).

I thought my 05 already had a 6speed Ally? (without the + - and the "M" I saw in the pic).
Never mind I went and looked it up...I guess I was smoking crack and halusinated the extra gear hahahahahaharotfl

6 Gears can be better even for the DMax for a variety of reasons, as long as they don't just decrease the gear spacing. For instance, first lower and then stacking up to the roughly the same OD with a higher axle gear gets the same performance as the 5 speed but a lower cruise rpm. As currently produced, the DMax cruise rpm at 75-80 is about 300 rpm above ideal for fuel mileage. Same could be produced with more OD, but that would have more component strain issues.

And it's really not much more complicated. Because of the planetary gear nature, it already has all the hardware in place for 6 gears anyway. All it needs is servos and clutch packs, which are also mostly all there since it's supposedly just missing servos that looses the 2000s 6 speed nature.

And on the more power not being needed, I agree and disagree, hinging on "needed". Clearly the trucks can get their work done without the power, but the extra power makes EVERYTHING so much nicer. For instance, with the extra power I can keep the truck in OD on 4* inclines with 15k gross and still keep reasonable (though high) EGT. Without it, it shifts down out of OD and roars all the way up and over pretty much on the redline. Fuel mileage sucks like that and I gotta think it's harder on the engine, not to mention getting on my nerves. It also greatly improves on "drivability". My truck moves in traffic as easily as my wife's super charged GP, merging into fast traffic, pulling onto a crowded road without needing a 100 yard opening, or passing a slow-poke on the 2 lane. It worked well stock, it works MUCH better now, and I'm not talking about the odd embarrassed look on a ricer's face...

And just to make this post completely diametrically opposed... :D

I don't think you're right about the Bombing being shut down by manufacturers, at least not across the board. In order for them to produce stock trucks with ever higher ratings, they have made changes to enhance durability so that they can maintain their comfort level and profit margins in the face of potential warranty failures. I agree that the ultimate amount of "Bombability" is pretty much stationary, primarily due to ultimate strength of the block and head. The entry to intermediate "bomber" like myself will (I think) actually find it easier and more dependable due to improvements in fuel control, turbo design, and so forth that open up easy opportunities for improvement that the manufacturer is not going to tap because it is calculated to only increase sales by n% while increasing warranty work by more than the addition n% sales would offset.

Just my thoughts...

Seems like every new automatic innovation is to only try to make a truck with an automatic perform like one with a manual.

Y'all can have your uber-expensive and complicated automatic transmissions. The 6 speed manuals more than do it for me.

Actually, I think it's just the opposite. They are trying to eliminate the drawbacks (other than complexity and cost) while keeping/getting more improvements over the manual. I liken your statement to the "GM 4x4 trucks suck because they are IFS" type of complaints. In these cases, one is not inherently "better" than the other across the board, but people all too often take their choices/needs/misconceptions to be the "ultimate truth and one true way", and anything else "sucks". But in reality, each has its benefits, and some are HUGE for certain categories of users.

That said, I also like the "in-control" feel of a stick and might even have one just for that reason, even though an auto makes infinitely more sense for the way I want to use the truck, and the fact that I would have to upgrade the clutch/plate/flywheel just to get the power handling capability my Allison has stock. However, I have a plastic left knee and other artifacts of a miss-spent youth which pretty much eliminate that as a possibility. I guess I'm lucky to live in a time when the autos have reached the point where they are superior to sticks in many important ways...

Seems like every new automatic innovation is to only try to make a truck with an automatic perform like one with a manual.

Y'all can have your uber-expensive and complicated automatic transmissions. The 6 speed manuals more than do it for me.
YOu prefer manuals, we all know that. The majority differ, obviously because the manufacturers spend probably five times the amount of research on improving their autos than manual options.

I definantly agree with BadDog and don't appreciate a one sided attitude.

I used to want a manual behind a Dodge CTD too, but after my dad bought his 454/NV4500 '98 C30 I was convinced otherwise. One trip through downtown California traffic and about had enough with the stick.

With todays autos, and the adition of another gear to every manufacturers auto every few years, the manual isn't so superior with transferring diesel power to the drivelines anymore. From my experience, they are a match made in heaven these days. Regardless, the manual option will probably always be there for the guys that exclusivly have to tow.

On bombing at least in California I predict it will come to a end in the next 5 years when the gov. starts smog checking diesel pickups. At least the blowing black smoke all over. In big rigs why would I want a bombed 3406B Cat when I can get more from a stock C15 Cat.

On bombing at least in California I predict it will come to a end in the next 5 years when the gov. starts smog checking diesel pickups. At least the blowing black smoke all over. You may be right but I would think they could only inforce that on vehicles that would require a smog check after a certain production year. All of us that have diesels made before a smog check should be exempt, only trucks manufactured after the law. I THINK that is how it would be but not positive at all.

Besides, let them. Unplug are little boxes, bolt on the stock turbo & injectors, and what else could they wine about?

You may be right but I would think they could only inforce that on vehicles that would require a smog check after a certain production year. All of us that have diesels made before a smog check should be exempt, only trucks manufactured after the law. I THINK that is how it would be but not positive at all.

Besides, let them. Unplug are little boxes, bolt on the stock turbo & injectors, and what else could they wine about?

Any of the diesel PU's that we're talking about came from the factory with federal smog equipment stock. Also on big rigs in Kali the CARB boys in their white vans set up along side the CHP/DOT inspectors sometimes doing "snap idel" test on rigs of any year.

Hell I remember when Kali made us install PCV valves on our cars that came with road draft tubes stock.

Any of the diesel PU's that we're talking about came from the factory with federal smog equipment stock. Also on big rigs in Kali the CARB boys in their white vans set up along side the CHP/DOT inspectors sometimes doing "snap idel" test on rigs of any year.

Hell I remember when Kali made us install PCV valves on our cars that came with road draft tubes stock.

Any smog equipment on most Diesels is minimal.;)

Bobby,

When your 47RE fails, I doubt you'll be doing anything but crying about what a POS it was. It's just a matter of time...Dodge Autos suck the big one, one of the major downfalls of their trucks IMO.

Russ,

I know how you feel, I have a bad right knee. Luckily it doesn't stop me from pushing the stupid pedal, that one's much easier than the clutch.

When your 47RE fails, I doubt you'll be doing anything but crying about what a POS it was. It's just a matter of time...Dodge Autos suck the big one, one of the major downfalls of their trucks IMO.

Tim, everything can fail at some point, It would be funny if for some reason "your" new cummins had problems at 3,000 miles just because it was "yours" and supposedly was not supposed to suck. :rolleyes: I'm not a big fan of 700r4's, but when I took mine out (Blazer) it had almost 200,000 hard miles on it while others had problems at 2,000 miles. I can understand manual being stronger than auto, I just don't understand the "What I have is better that what you have" view, that you seem to have on everything.

Bobby,

When your 47RE fails, I doubt you'll be doing anything but crying about what a POS it was. It's just a matter of time...Dodge Autos suck the big one, one of the major downfalls of their trucks IMO.


Don't be an arogant butt head. :rolleyes: When my tranny fails I'll place a nice little call to the guys over at ATS diesel....infact...I can't wait to call them. Then, I'll make another cute little call to my warranty company to arrange a brand new 47RE to be installed at my local dealer, on them of course. Then I will take it down to my TH700R4 buddy and have him install the VB and TC.

I'm not like some people that automaticly think just because a part lets go it must be a POS, things just wear out, it's the law of nature in the auto world. You won't be so cocky when you melt the clutch on that 6 spd and are forking over 1,300 bucks for a new hi performance clutch. I've already looked into that stuff. For a not even double that I can have a built auto that will live happily ever after.

This is my TH700R4 all over again. You and MJ said it wouldn't last a year....that was almost three years ago. :pimp:

Tim,

I accidently Edited your post. I am very sorry and feel like a COMPLETE pin head. :eek: :o

You don't drive your Blazer, so the tranny is never going to burn up.

That was three years ago when we had that talk. I quit DD'ing my K5 Last December of '04.



All the while you're bombing your automatic to make it live, and my manual is going its happy way.

Thats the difference between bombing an auto truck vs a manual. It's not all that hard of a process, you call ATS or DTT and tell them you want one of their trannies, you then pay for it and get it installed, and forget about it. It's not hard.
;)
If you run any kind of decent box, like that TS thingy you got, you should be able to smoke the stock clutch. I'm sure you can just have Dodge warranty another clutch for you since it's a new truck but that doesn't fix anything. In the end you cant make big power either without issues just because you have a metal pole between the seats and a third pedal. You'll wind up leaving the engine stock to save the clutch or eventually shell out for a hi performance clutch. Yes the stock auto sucks, but at least once you shell out the fortune for a bombed version it should be done with and you're only left with EGT's holding you back. ;)

Tim, everything can fail at some point, It would be funny if for some reason "your" new cummins had problems at 3,000 miles just because it was "yours" and supposedly was not supposed to suck. :rolleyes: I'm not a big fan of 700r4's, but when I took mine out (Blazer) it had almost 200,000 hard miles on it while others had problems at 2,000 miles. I can understand manual being stronger than auto, I just don't understand the "What I have is better that what you have" view, that you seem to have on everything.

Wow! waytogo

The problem isnt that they blow up behind bombed motors, they blow up in stock trucks. You say the problem is that the cummins is to low RPM to pump adequate pressure in another post, well, why do the V-10 guys grenade them in under 100K miles? Stock, its a weak trans, plain and simple. Not strong enough for the Cummins or 8.0 V-10. Upgraded they are fine, but you have to pump money into them to make them decent. Manual is the way to go strength wise, if you are staying stock. If you are going to bomb, your going to sink money into either trans, might as well get the auto.

Im not a fan of auto's myself, but they have their place and advantages. They can be nice to tow with if its hilly or your are in heavy traffic, manuals get old. They keep boost up when shifting, and are generally smoother. They just arent my cup of tea.


Oh, BTW, just about 230K miles on my orriginal TH700-R4 in my diesel K5.waytogo

Honestly, I don't own manuals because I think autos are unreliable, even though some (especially Dodge) ARE. I own manuals because I just prefer to drive it, and for a long time i've been preaching that it is preference. It is my preference to drive a manual, and if they stop offering new trucks with them, I'll stop driving new trucks.

That said, Chrysler autos are absolute junk. They just can't hold up to the torque, like Joez said, and not even a stock truck. The Allison hasn't proven itself to be bulletproof but it's a hell of a lot better than the 47/48RE. The new Ford trans I haven't heard much about, but those things have enough engine issues that I guess it doesn't matter what trans you get, and the 4R100 had all kinds of problems behind the 7.3.

As to my truck and BOMBing it, the stock clutch, etc. My truck is going to have a dual mass flywheel and clutch assembly worth over $2000. The transmission is new and unproven. I wanted an NV 5600 truck but I waited too long to order and got stuck with this G-56. I feel like a sucker but we shall see how it turns out. It's sad that none of the big 3 even make what I want anymore.

Tim, everything can fail at some point, It would be funny if for some reason "your" new cummins had problems at 3,000 miles just because it was "yours" and supposedly was not supposed to suck. :rolleyes: I'm not a big fan of 700r4's, but when I took mine out (Blazer) it had almost 200,000 hard miles on it while others had problems at 2,000 miles. I can understand manual being stronger than auto, I just don't understand the "What I have is better that what you have" view, that you seem to have on everything.

Mine might end up being a piece of junk, who knows, it has this new transmission in it with a dual mass flywheel and reverse is in the wrong place. rotfl

As the the 46/47/48RE, I'd say they're known to be problematic even more than the 700R4, and despite the fact that your 700R4 lasted 200,000....when you took it out.....I noticed, you didn't put one back in, either!!!!! ;)

The problem isnt that they blow up behind bombed motors, they blow up in stock trucks. You say the problem is that the cummins is to low RPM to pump adequate pressure in another post, well, why do the V-10 guys grenade them in under 100K miles? Stock, its a weak trans, plain and simple. Not strong enough for the Cummins or 8.0 V-10. Upgraded they are fine, but you have to pump money into them to make them decent. Manual is the way to go strength wise, if you are staying stock. If you are going to bomb, your going to sink money into either trans, might as well get the auto.

Well I guess we have just seen different exapmles then. My neighbor has a V10 auto truck and pulls with it every year at all the local pulls and has all the current upgrades for the V10, and not one problem with his 47RE. I am in a local 4x4 club and half the guys have lifted Cummins dodges (all autos)and out of about 7 guys, only two have had trans problems. One guy blew the input shaft apart and the other guy keeps blowing 47RH's up one after another but he is making over 700HP on nitrous and propane. ;) I just haven't seen very many failures with this transmission, a few that are modified, but non that are stock have had problems with the local boys I know.

I own manuals because I just prefer to drive it, and for a long time i've been preaching that it is preference. It is my preference to drive a manual
You don't preach about your preference, you preach about how everything else is junk, except what you like.

Instead of preaching about how terrible the autos are when you haven't even owned one, preach about how you like the 6spd manual and thats your choice. You'd be suprised at the positive responses you would get if you posted with a positive attitude yourself about what you like, instead of a negative attitude about everything you hate.

You don't preach about your preference, you preach about how everything else is junk, except what you like.

Said the pot to the kettle.:D

Said the pot to the kettle.:D

I was thinking the same thing, until I reread it, and he does make a point in there somewhere.;)

I was thinking the same thing, until I reread it, and he does make a point in there somewhere.;)

I know, but I couldn't resist.:o

You don't preach about your preference, you preach about how everything else is junk, except what you like.

Instead of preaching about how terrible the autos are when you haven't even owned one, preach about how you like the 6spd manual and thats your choice. You'd be suprised at the positive responses you would get if you posted with a positive attitude yourself about what you like, instead of a negative attitude about everything you hate.

I haven't owned ANY Diesel powered pickup, EVER. By your thought process, I shouldn't voice ANY opinion on ANY Diesel related matters until next Tuesday. ;)

That said, what you said isn't true anyway. I don't preach that everything I don't like is junk. I don't care for IFS Chevys at all. You don't see me going around here saying the Duramax or the Allison are junk. The Duramax is a fine engine, the Allison is overrated but certainly not junk. I wouldn't own either of them but that doesn't mean I'm going to say they're junk.

I wouldn't own either of them but that doesn't mean I'm going to say they're junk. You have definantly talked about how you think all Chrysler autos are junk. Whats the difference from one part to the other? If you have never had any experience with a given part in question how would you know if it's good or not?

The experiences of others are not valid? It's a pretty well known fact that Chrysler had a real hard time making a good automatic trans for a long time.

The experiences of others are not valid? It's a pretty well known fact that Chrysler had a real hard time making a good automatic trans for a long time.

Bingo.

Before I worked for the post office (which I do now) I worked at an auto shop that rebuilt auto trannies. I did all the lesser work, and my boss pretty much did the tranny work.

I've seen all of a Chrysler automatic that I need to see, thank God it was someone else's. rotfl

I find it funny how Tim is calling stuff Junk while Bobby is claiming that he has not heard the same thing.
I am not saying one or the other is correct. My point is that the advent of the internet with these forums on it has created a better informed mass that sometimes has a tendency to blow things out of proportion. For instance

I hear of guys limping the Allison tranny all of the time over on dieselplace. These guys are the ones running 100 hp tunes on a stock tranny. It is well known that the Allison can only handle so much torque before it slips in certain gears. All of this info doesn't point to the Allison being a pile of junk but it does say that it has a point where it needs help to live.

Now for the kicker, If it wasn't for that site or ones like this I would not even know about tuners and limping the tranny. These sites have turned local into the entire country not our limited little area that we actually live in.

A person can read about some random guy in Cali having the same problem as he is with his truck and discuss that problem. Now all of the sudden ten other guys jump in and have heard of it or have the same problem. Is this a fair sampling to say somthing is junk or has problems?

I perosnally don't think so simply because you are getting a highly concentrated sampling of the entire population of the country.
So lets say that Dodge has 1,000 trucks go out this year that have a snap ring installed wrong in the tranny. Guys like Tim get this truck and use it for say 5,000 miles and start having gear syncro. problems. The dealer can't find the problem because you have to look real hard to see said snap ring. Tim gets on the internet and reads about 300 other guys that are having the same problems. The collective mass decide this new tranny is junk.

The reality is that less than 1% of these trannys are "junk" but Guys like Tim are now convinced that they are all junk because that is the way his mind works.

In reality are these tranny bad probably not but because we can read about a bunch of failures in one "small spot" we think it is.

My long winded and rambling point is that just because we read it on the WORLD WIDE INTERNET doesn't make it true.

I agree 100% on all points. People have to understand that these forums attract a very small portion of the total population, and that small portion is generally VERY biased. And these type people tend to be the ones pushing harder and paying more attention as well as being more vocal. So, since the population is biased (by brand, tendency to drama, etc.) AND in no way properly sampled statistically, the information must be taken "with a grain of salt". A very VERY large grain of salt, maybe even a truck load, a LARGE truck load… well, you get the point. :D

Yes, but be careful towing or hauling the said "Salt" do to unproperly set up suspensions or ... (Ok, lets not go there) rotfl

just because we read it on the WORLD WIDE INTERNET doesn't make it true.

I've been meaning to check out the WWI, I hear it's even better than the WWW.

The TV once told me that Dodge trannies suck, does THAT make it true?:confused: TV has never lied to me before.:)

Yes, but be careful towing or hauling the said "Salt" do to unproperly set up suspensions or ... (Ok, lets not go there) rotfl

You think you are a funny man. Okay maybe you are.

Made me laugh... rotfl

Now about that suspension... ;)

I can't wait for the first time I read the classic thread title

Shackle Flip and Towing LOL :eek: rotfl

I definantly agree with Miniwally, My dad and I talked abou the same thing once when he was interested in a 6 spd Dmax and I had found all kinds of info about the "bad" flywheel and clutch. You take 100 Dmax/6spd owners and 85 of them don't have any problems and have no interest in any forum. 10 out of the remaining 15 DO have problems and let eveyone know about it on the internet, the remaining 5 don't have problems but are interested in their trucks enough to get involved in a website online. So a person comes across one of these sites to get info on a dmax with a 6spd (like my dad and I a few weeks ago) and find that 75% of the manual equipped trucks had problems according to the site on hand when in reality out of all mass produced it was 10%. (made up figues of course)


Tim,
I don't know what exactly you have seen personally fail but in my time I have never had a Th700R4 failure( supposedly very common to quit), my grandpas "weak and unreliable" E40D in his '95 Powerstroke has 258K on the stock tranny with nothing more than an oil change at 90K, my neighbors "supposedly much better" updated 4R100 in his '02 PS gave out at 80K, our '76 C30's TH400 clutches gave out with relativly low mileage and an easy life, and lastly my dad's '98 C30 with an NV4500 has clutch and/or linkage problems. Maybe this shows why I have faith in different things and don't just believe what I read on the internet about parts that supposedly had LOTS of problems.

Going a little OT, but that comment about the 700R4 made me think. Our "1 ton K5" has a 700R4 in it and it apparently did fine for the p.o. and worked great for us until it "suddently and unexplainably lost all forward gears except low". Worked fine when my son drove it to school. Parked it, and then went to leave that even and it mysteriously "died". That was his story and he vehemently denied that there was anything missing, till the case was opened up. :eek: Broken housing, broken planetary drum, and lots of other bits-n-pieces. "AMAZING!" I said to him when he got home that day. "How that stuff just BLEW UP sitting in a parking lot. Then I found out the truth. He had been out with friends who drive Mustangs, TAs and the like and they were doing burnouts. So he decided to show them up with the K5. Apparently it survived a fair few high rpm neutral drops and fully roasted the 35" BFG ATs with locked 4.56s making an impressive show, till it had enough and he limped home with the lie to cover his behind. FWIW, he had to pay for the entire trans rebuild, $1400. If he had not lied, I would have probably at least split it with him or something since I've wasted a few vehicles doing stupid things in my day (though never stupid enough to do neutral drops). Anyway, the point of all this is, how many of those, "I drove it like a grandma" stories are pure BS? How many don't really know what their son did with it when he took out the camper or whatever? Something else to think about...

So thats what happened to the 700r4 Russ.


I certainly admire you for your parenting on that one.
Like all others I did a few of those things in my day and probably will agian.

Going a little OT, but that comment about the 700R4 made me think. Our "1 ton K5" has a 700R4 in it and it apparently did fine for the p.o. and worked great for us until it "suddently and unexplainably lost all forward gears except low". Worked fine when my son drove it to school. Parked it, and then went to leave that even and it mysteriously "died". That was his story and he vehemently denied that there was anything missing, till the case was opened up. :eek: Broken housing, broken planetary drum, and lots of other bits-n-pieces. "AMAZING!" I said to him when he got home that day. "How that stuff just BLEW UP sitting in a parking lot. Then I found out the truth. He had been out with friends who drive Mustangs, TAs and the like and they were doing burnouts. So he decided to show them up with the K5. Apparently it survived a fair few high rpm neutral drops and fully roasted the 35" BFG ATs with locked 4.56s making an impressive show, till it had enough and he limped home with the lie to cover his behind. FWIW, he had to pay for the entire trans rebuild, $1400. If he had not lied, I would have probably at least split it with him or something since I've wasted a few vehicles doing stupid things in my day (though never stupid enough to do neutral drops). Anyway, the point of all this is, how many of those, "I drove it like a grandma" stories are pure BS? How many don't really know what their son did with it when he took out the camper or whatever? Something else to think about...

Damn, Russ.

Are you sure you don't want to adopt another son? I know one that doesn't act like that! rotfl waytogo waytogo

Damn, Russ.

Are you sure you don't want to adopt another son? I know one that doesn't act like that! rotfl waytogo waytogo

Ya but does he really want to deal with the other crap that comes with that? rotfl :eek: JK

Ya but does he really want to deal with the other crap that comes with that? rotfl :eek: JK

:eek: :rolleyes: rotfl rotfl rotfl rotfl rotfl rotfl