TowRig.com - Diesel Discussion and Tow Tech

Fun? A towrig is supposed to get you to the fun.:D

Please, don't hijack this thread, create a new one...
Half the fun is driving the tow rig. My point is regardless of towing and initial cost, todays diesels are superior to a gas engine in my book. Mileage, maintenance, power, design of the engine...all better than a comparable gas engine option. THe only downside I see is cost when there are parts failure.

I've always had gas powered vehicles, but after having a diesel pickup I'll never go back.

I've always had gas powered vehicles, but after having a diesel pickup I'll never go back.

You made me out to sound like I'm the one preaching the virtues of gas! After owning my TDI Jetta and my new truck, I'll never buy another gas powered vehicle again, unless it's a classic car or something. Even then, I think a 69 Chevelle or something like it with a Cummins or DMax in it would be sweet and unusual. Probably would get lynched at the track for it though...:o

Anyways, the benefit for gas is that it costs alot less than diesel. Other than that, I see no benefit.:confused:

Why would you spend another 5k for the diesel, then pay 60 bucks for oil changes, 50 for air filters....and so on, when I already have a tow rig that is argueably the most practical setup for towing with a 1-ton truck. This is daily transportation, not a truck that is going into the hot shot hauling industry. Yea, diesel is great, I think that topic has been covered 1000000000000 times, but you make it sound like a gas motor is simply a piece of ****. Sorry, but 370hp and 460 lb ft of tq should be "fun" in a light weight pickup. If its not, Im a damn fool I guess.

I totally agree with you. I am sure that if I were to buy a another truck, it would be a gas engine. I don't daily drive my truck, I definetly don't daily tow with it, so what is the point of spending all of that money in the initial purchase, and then like you said the maintenance, and higher repair costs (for the most part) and get marginally better fuel mileage (even a 5 MPG difference would take a long time to pay off), and currently higher fuel costs. Just not worth it for me, and I can see why your Dad would choose the gas engine for the same reason my parents bought a 6.0 gas truck vs. a Duramax a couple of years ago for towing there 32' fifth wheel all over the country. They get 9-11 MPG, and paying a lot less for regular unleaded then diesel fuel is.

Exactly. Today's modern gassers will get the job done, and so will a diesel. Sure the diesel will probably get you there faster, but this is only when we are dealing with some SERIOUS weight, like 20k trailer loads. How fast do you really need to be going up the hills with that much weight? I think everybody agrees that the diesel is the dominant tow motor, but implying that a gas motor is far less useful is somewhat of a stretch.

With todays diesel prices, it is much harder to justify. I absolutely love my diesel, but stricktly speaking, I can't begin to justify the costs except to say it's worth it to top a 4 mile 6% grade at 80 in OD loaded to 15k. My blood pressure used to skyrocket setting in the slow lane, barely holding 35, only to have someone else in an overloaded uhaul stuck in the same lane, and making me slow to 25 or so because I couldn't pass without blocking the "fast lane". :mad: That alone justifies the cost to me...

You made me out to sound like I'm the one preaching the virtues of gas! Sorry Evan, I just qouted you because you asked to not hyjack your thread and to make a new one. :)

Relax man, I didn't say they were a pile of poo at all. Gas motors are fine and I agree that with the power numbers of today's engines, it will be plenty for almost everything. Heck, the small blocks of today put out more power than the BBC in our 1976 C30 dually that my dad used to drag an 18K rated gooseneck loaded gross at 30K from here to Texas.

All I was saying is after driving both a gas and diesel engine I prefer the diesel in daily driving circumstances 10 fold to a gas engine. They are just so much more fun to drive and run forever.

I do find this interesting though...
then pay 60 bucks for oil changes, 50 for air filters....and so on,
diesels do hold twice the amount of oil and most are recommended for an oil change at every 10K or so, not 3K that some people rediculously do with diesels. The oil cost is the same, infact less if you have your oil changed at a "stop and lube" since you only pay for filters and labor once every 10K instead of twice with a gas engine.

I never said gas engines are POS's, just that diesel engines are better in almost every circumstance vs. a comparable gas engine, IMHO of course.

diesels do hold twice the amount of oil and most are recommended for an oil change at every 10K or so, not 3K that some people rediculously do with diesels.


10k miles on an oil change? I dont know what Dodge recommends for the Cummins, but Ford says 5000 miles on the PSD, 7.3 or 6.0. Unless of course you are running Amsoil bypass filter setups and the like, but then again we are talkin stock rigs here. After a quick look on the internet it appears that Dodge recommends 7500 miles on a particular service schedule. Chevy recommends 3000-5000 depending on application and usage. It may be ridiculous to change the oil at 3000 miles, but if thats what the manufacturer recommends, Im not really gonna think twice about doing it that way. But then again, when you said 10k mile intervals, you were probably just talkin about Cummins........

I cant remember the last time someone else changed the oil in one of my vehicles, but from what I remember, they would only cover oil up to a certain number of qts, then the additional qt cost jumped right up.

Only 3-5K out of the GM's? Wow. IIRC the ISB is listed for 11K oil intervals in a medium duty application and I think it's the same size pan as the ISB in the Dodge's. far as I know the Dmax and PSD hold just as much oil as the Cummins does. My drandpa changes his oil twice a year with his '95 PSD and drives over 25K a year, and had 258K on the odometer last time I saw it six months ago. I think changing the oil below 7-8K on a diesel engine is a waste personally, when a decent oil is used of course, but that is the way I see it and don't expect anyone to stop changing their diesel at 3K. I'll be changing mine at about 10K, but I use Exon XD3 Extra that is supposedly 50K oil in OTR trucks.

Take it easy man, I'm just having a little fun.... :poke: :)

Oh, so now YOU'RE poking the stick... ;)

I use Rotella and change at 5k according to the GM manual. I also change the WIX filter with every oil change. Not that much expense and with the dust and heat we have out here, not taking any chances.

Oh, so now YOU'RE poking the stick... ;)

rotfl good one...

How many quarts does the dmax hold?

10 quarts.

10 quarts.Hmm, I don't know why you couldn't go 7-9K then?

This is one thing I'm not going to argue with GM on. I change it per spec and record it in the log. If I ever need that 100k engine/200k fuel system warranty, they won't be dinging me for the oil changes. And I don't have nearly the knowledge to second guess the 5k span, so I follow it. Who knows what may have led them to that number, but since I don't think they get a kick back from oil sales, I figure it probably has some reason, though considering some of the stupid (appearing) things GM and other companies do, who knows...

My truck could hold 30 quarts and I'm still going to change the oil every 3.5-4k miles. Call me whatever you want timmay jr.

Call me whatever you want timmay jr.

rotfl Seems to be a recurring thought around here.

This is one thing I'm not going to argue with GM on. I change it per spec and record it in the log. If I ever need that 100k engine/200k fuel system warranty, they won't be dinging me for the oil changes. And I don't have nearly the knowledge to second guess the 5k span, so I follow it. Who knows what may have led them to that number, but since I don't think they get a kick back from oil sales, I figure it probably has some reason, though considering some of the stupid (appearing) things GM and other companies do, who knows...

I second that, I'll change the oil according to what Ford sets as the interval. If I had an Amsoil bypass filter kit I might run the oil in longer, but I dont. I guess your 7500/15000 miles intervals are yet another fantastic reason to consider Cummins a dominant motor :rolleyes:

I second that, I'll change the oil according to what Ford sets as the interval. If I had an Amsoil bypass filter kit I might run the oil in longer, but I dont. I guess your 7500/15000 miles intervals are yet another fantastic reason to consider Cummins a dominant motor :rolleyes: Don't makeup a bunch of garbage. I never said that cummins is dominant because of oil.... :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

My truck could hold 30 quarts and I'm still going to change the oil every 3.5-4k miles. Call me whatever you want timmay jr. That I find silly. Our trucks hold 11 gallons of oil in their Detroit 60 series engines, we change the oil at nearly 20K in them. I don't care when you change your oil, I guess you didn't read my post very well.

. I think changing the oil below 7-8K on a diesel engine is a waste personally, when a decent oil is used of course, but that is the way I see it and don't expect anyone to stop changing their diesel at 3K

rotfl Seems to be a recurring thought around here. No it isn't, it's your imagination.

It also depends on use. OTR can go much longer due to the way they run. Without all the heat cycle, it does not break down as fast as an LD typical use would cause. And they also have like 2 QT filters or even dual filters and bypass filters, so that makes a difference for particulate control. I'm more worried about oil break-down myself, and from what I understand, that's not going to change by that much whether you have 4 quarts or 10... Full Synthetics are a different matter all together and I would probably run it more, but with the size of the filters we run on LDs, I prefer more frequent changes with good quality dino joice or the cheaper (that full synth) synth blends. No idea which is more practical or "better", just a "piece of mind" and "opinion" thing for the most part.

It also depends on use. OTR can go much longer due to the way they run. Without all the heat cycle, it does not break down as fast as an LD typical use would cause. And they also have like 2 QT filters or even dual filters and bypass filters, so that makes a difference for particulate control. I'm more worried about oil break-down myself, and from what I understand, that's not going to change by that much whether you have 4 quarts or 10... Full Synthetics are a different matter all together and I would probably run it more, but with the size of the filters we run on LDs, I prefer more frequent changes with good quality dino joice or the cheaper (that full synth) synth blends. No idea which is more practical or "better", just a "piece of mind" and "opinion" thing for the most part. What about using a quality oil and just changing your filter and topping the engine off between oil changes? We have had great success with this method in our semis. Since we run mostly Exxon XD3 extra that is rated for 50K we just do a filter change at 15K or so and change it at 30K. The one thing we gain though, is that most of our engines have three filters, which when filled back up brings in a lot of fresh oil.

I've thought of running something like Amsoil in my Dodge and just changing the filter at 15K and changing it at 30-40K...?

I already use a "quality oil". And just replacing the filter still does not address my concern over the temp cycling that occurs. Running more expensive synthetics to get longer duration with only filter changes, what is the point? Cost winds up being higher, and I give GM something to complain about and potentially use to deny warranty claims.

That I find silly. Our trucks hold 11 gallons of oil in their Detroit 60 series engines, we change the oil at nearly 20K in them. I don't care when you change your oil, I guess you didn't read my post very well.

Well I run "B" and "C" seires 3406 Cat engines and they recommend changing your oil every 6k miles. Then I run off/ on road with my construction trucks. When things get busy I might go 10k miles.

I woule have to say that I am totaly with RJF on this one. I check my oil every other fuel up, and top off when needed. But only change the oil at 10/ 12k . Change the filter at 5k.

Did you guys know that Roadway DOES NOT chnge the oil in their rigs until 1 million. The motor uses oil, they change the filters. Could you imagine driving a big rig and changing the oil every 3k???? That could be once every other day. Personaly I think the "recomandations " have a whole lot to do with the oil industry more that true where and tear.

As far as gas / diesel......I love my diesel!!!

Did you guys know that Roadway DOES NOT chnge the oil in their rigs until 1 million. The motor uses oil, they change the filters. Could you imagine driving a big rig and changing the oil every 3k???? That could be once every other day. Personaly I think the "recomandations " have a whole lot to do with the oil industry more that true where and tear.


Do you have regular oil samples tested? I did and used the results to establish how often I needed to change the oil in mt Cat powered rigs used in local service. My results mirrored Cat's advise for those engines. And OTR trucks that are on extended oil changes don't do the short hops- local driving like we use are pu's

Yep, I think it's the temperature cycling that kills the oil and that's what makes me follow the shorter schedule. Big rigs have better intake filtration and better oil filtration too, so less intake silica contaminating the oil. But it's the temperature cycling that closes that door for me.

Uhh, yah , no "scientific"testing done from me, just that I trust the guys that I learned from really. http://www.world-of-smilies.de/html/images/smilies/ugly/ugly22.gif

My trucks spend a lot of time ideling and running in dusty areas. The standard in the industry was change the oil every 10K miles or every 3 months. With sampling I found I needed to change the oil every 6K miles. Oil and filters are cheap compared to doing a inframe rebuild. Plus if I have a motor go down during the busy part of the year I lose the income that truck would make too. When ever possible I try and have major work done on the trucks during the winter when construction work is slow.

My trucks spend a lot of time ideling and running in dusty areas. The standard in the industry was change the oil every 10K miles or every 3 months. With sampling I found I needed to change the oil every 6K miles. Oil and filters are cheap compared to doing a inframe rebuild. Plus if I have a motor go down during the busy part of the year I lose the income that truck would make too. When ever possible I try and have major work done on the trucks during the winter when construction work is slow.

I don't want to get into a debate but I'll throw this out there. We don't change the oil in our rigs as soon as we probably should but also on an engine that lasts 1 million miles, 11 gallons of oil and 3 large filters are not cheap when being changed every 10K. If multiply the cost of one oil change by the amount of changes that would accure every 10K on a million motor that is a LOT of money. We change ours roughly every 20K or so and most of our trucks are in ag work with dust and short trips. We have one 60 series Detroit with over 1.1 million miles on it, we aren't getting any less mileage than other guys that are religious with oil changes and we are saving a lot of money in less frequent oil bills. :)