TowRig.com - Diesel Discussion and Tow Tech

It's true, real diesels have 6 inline cylinders..... :D

If you say so...:eek::D:D

It's true, real diesels have 6 inline cylinders..... :D

I guess the 6V-71 and 6V-92 as well as the 4-71, and 8-71 Detroits aren't real Diesels then.:confused:

I guess the 6V-71 and 6V-92 as well as the 4-71, and 8-71 Detroits aren't real Diesels then.:confused:Tim, don't make something out of nothing.

Tim, don't make something out of nothing.

Hey man, just taking the statements at face value. :p

The detroit series 60 I drive at work has 6 cylinders, thats what i was comparing my choice to.

So what inline diesel does dodge manufacture that makes them king?

The cummins may be king, but cetainly not that "thing" that comes wrapped arround it.:D

So what inline diesel does dodge manufacture that makes them king?

The cummins may be king, but cetainly not that "thing" that comes wrapped arround it.:D That "thing" that comes wrapped around the Cummins drivetrain is the nicest and ,most importantly, the toughest truck built compared to those "other" two goobers building pickups.:pimp:

That "thing" that comes wrapped around the Cummins drivetrain is the nicest and ,most importantly, the toughest truck built compared to those "other" two goobers building pickups.:pimp:

Tell that to your 47RE, or your track bar, or the various other problems that your bodystyle Dodge has.

You just bought the newest version of the Dodge. Do you really expect that it will be perfect?

Tell that to your 47RE, or your track bar, or the various other problems that your bodystyle Dodge has. I am fully aware that the track bars aren't the best and that the 47RE isn't the best auto in the world but thats about all of the major problems I know of, which all have an easy fix too.

For some reason you have this illusion that the 3rd gens are SOOO muvh better than a second gen...you are going to get a rude awakening. You're 3rd gen isn't perfect either.

Every vehicle has problems, nothing is ever designed and manufactured perfectly. Infact I can think of more design flaws in our beloved 73-87 K series Chevies than I can the 2nd gen dodges. Weak steering box mount, "supposedly" weak 700R4, bad steering column, weak in tank fuel pumps on EFI models, pesky tailgate window, Eaton Gov lok on a 10/12B....I could go on and on but these things don't seem to bother you since you have an '84 and spend so much time at CK5. So why would a couple of problems with the 2nd gen Dodges bother me?:)

You just bought the newest version of the Dodge. Do you really expect that it will be perfect?

Nope, they have their own problems (vibration, white smoke, etc.)rotfl waytogo waytogo

On the 73-87 thing....

I already got rid of the Gov Lock, and 700R4, never had EFI, replaced the bad steering column with one that doesn't have tilt, and since I don't have a window on the tailgate of my pickup, I'm pleased as punch with it.

You forgot ESC, CCC, 305s, and numerous outher gremlins though. rotfl rotfl

On the 73-87 thing....

I already got rid of the Gov Lock, and 700R4, never had EFI, replaced the bad steering column with one that doesn't have tilt, and since I don't have a window on the tailgate of my pickup, I'm pleased as punch with it.

You forgot ESC, CCC, 305s, and numerous outher gremlins though. rotfl rotfl Exactly. Both you nad I have delt with our Chevies weak links and have fixed most of them. It will be the same for probably any vehicle we own. I plan on a Lukes Link to correct the track bar problem, F.A.S.S. fuel system to do away with the lift pump, and of course a built tranny.

Exactly. Both you nad I have delt with our Chevies weak links and have fixed most of them. It will be the same for probably any vehicle we own. I plan on a Lukes Link to correct the track bar problem, F.A.S.S. fuel system to do away with the lift pump, and of course a built tranny.

I'm just ruffling your feathers man. I bought a truck with a totally new transmission in it without even thinking about it. Who knows what the future may bring. rotfl

I'm just ruffling your feathers man. rotflStop, it's annoying.

I bought a truck with a totally new transmission in it without even thinking about it. Who knows what the future may bring. I bet it will be fine.

That "thing" that comes wrapped around the Cummins drivetrain is the nicest and ,most importantly, the toughest truck built compared to those "other" two goobers building pickups.:pimp:

Cummins is the best of the 3 motors, agreed. .....toughest truck built compared to those "other" two...... How do you figure? What makes them that much better than a Ford for example.

Dodge king eh? How about this (http://www.nolimitdieselperformance.com/eleven.mpg). 11.49 with nothing but a chip, exhaust, and trans upgrades.
Edit: Oops, my mistake, looks like that truck is now running nitrous and LP.

Cummins is the best of the 3 motors, agreed. .....toughest truck built compared to those "other" two...... How do you figure? What makes them that much better than a Ford for example.

Nothing in my opinion. The Ford is a nicer truck.

Dodge king eh? How about this (http://www.nolimitdieselperformance.com/eleven.mpg). 11.49 with nothing but a chip, exhaust, and trans upgrades.
Edit: Oops, my mistake, looks like that truck is now running nitrous and LP.

Fast truck? Hell yea it is. Reliable? Nope. I had my TS chip reflashed by the guys who own that truck, and I guess the motor has some very serious problems now from making runs like those shown in that video. That is a smokin fast 1/4mile time for the amount of work that it has, but it didnt stay together too long.

Cummins is the best of the 3 motors, agreed. .....toughest truck built compared to those "other" two...... How do you figure? What makes them that much better than a Ford for example. Dodge pretty much has and does have the strongest drivetrains. GM is out of the question with their front end. You could get a D60 front and D80 rear in an SRW 3/4 truck with an NV5600 6 spd and monster NP271 tcase. Ford never matched that. The Sterlings under the fords are no larger than my D70 in my auto truck, not to mention Ford used the D50 for years while Dodge had been using a front 60 and D70/80, even before '94 in the older Dodges.

I don't know how strong the Ford suspension is but I do know the Dodge coil setup is STRONG. Those coils are HUGE. I am however very interested in the new '05 coil setup on the Fords since I am a big coil suspension fan.

Tim,
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. The Ford SD body styling is catchy and I really like them with a billet grille and clear lenses on the front markers but I still prefer the Sport front end on the second gen Dodges over anything out there. The interior is a no brainer for me, the Ford interior is just funky IMHO.

Fast truck? Hell yea it is. Reliable? Nope. I had my TS chip reflashed by the guys who own that truck, and I guess the motor has some very serious problems now from making runs like those shown in that video. That is a smokin fast 1/4mile time for the amount of work that it has, but it didnt stay together too long.
Yeah, I regret making that post. I was just keeping in line with the forum (Brand Wars) and figured Bobby needed something to jump on. ;) Too much "Dodge self love" in here... rotfl So when I saw that on PBB, I posted it without checking into the updates since I last saw it.

Anyway, I remembered that truck from a while back when it was pushing the limits with a pretty much nothing but a chip. At least that was my memory, but maybe mixing up trucks after all this time. And for some reason I didn't even think about them having gone to drugs, though I should with that time. I should have checked into it better before making the post. Oh well...

Dodge pretty much has and does have the strongest drivetrains. GM is out of the question with their front end. You could get a D60 front and D80 rear in an SRW 3/4 truck with an NV5600 6 spd and monster NP271 tcase. Ford never matched that. The Sterlings under the fords are no larger than my D70 in my auto truck, not to mention Ford used the D50 for years while Dodge had been using a front 60 and D70/80, even before '94 in the older Dodges.

You can no longer get any Dana axle in any Dodge, so those points are moot. When you could, they had funky spline counts, like 32 spline D60s and D70s, and in most cases the axles from those Dodges are among the least desirable on the market. Don't forget the failure prone CAD, when Ford has and still does have manual hubs on their trucks, and an auto hub option for those that are lazy is still superior to a failure prone cad that still allows the parts to turn.

I don't know how strong the Ford suspension is but I do know the Dodge coil setup is STRONG. Those coils are HUGE. I am however very interested in the new '05 coil setup on the Fords since I am a big coil suspension fan.

Here's a picture of it for you. Makes the Dodge 4 link look like garbage in my opinion. Both setups do the job, and it it makes for a nicer ride, so be it I suppose.....but as you know I'm not a coil spring fan at all, I like leaves.

http://towrig.com/photos/data/507/58new_ford.jpg

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. The Ford SD body styling is catchy and I really like them with a billet grille and clear lenses on the front markers but I still prefer the Sport front end on the second gen Dodges over anything out there. The interior is a no brainer for me, the Ford interior is just funky IMHO.

I don't care for the newer ones. I think that if I'd had the money in 02, I would have jumped all over one. Real D60 up front, the 7.3, ZF, and Sterling 10.5.

The Dodge truck is the best truck on the market right now (also the newest restyling) so I went with that. I think I'm going to really like it. As you can tell, I'm not brand loyal, I just want a truck that I'll enjoy for a long time...and for me, I think the Dodge was it at this time.

Dodge pretty much has and does have the strongest drivetrains. GM is out of the question with their front end. You could get a D60 front and D80 rear in an SRW 3/4 truck with an NV5600 6 spd and monster NP271 tcase. Ford never matched that. The Sterlings under the fords are no larger than my D70 in my auto truck, not to mention Ford used the D50 for years while Dodge had been using a front 60 and D70/80, even before '94 in the older Dodges.

I don't know how strong the Ford suspension is but I do know the Dodge coil setup is STRONG. Those coils are HUGE. I am however very interested in the new '05 coil setup on the Fords since I am a big coil suspension fan.


Front suspension strength? Please. Its a proven leaf setup, I dont think any strength, or lack of strength issues are found between either Dodge or Ford, we all know Chevy isnt part of the argument. The same transfer case is found in both Dodge and Ford, the NP271. While I do agree that the cast iron case of the NV would be nicer than the ZF, I highly doubt that you could find an application to stress the ZF trans to a point beyond what the NV would take. they are both extremely stout transmissions. As was already brought up, the D60 found in the front of Fords is 35 spline, with a 9.75 ring gear, and has manual locking hubs, a unit that is arguably stouter than the Dodge unit. A D80 in a 3/4 SRW truck is damn beefy. That is beyond debate.

You can no longer get any Dana axle in any Dodge, so those points are moot. When you could, they had funky spline counts, like 32 spline D60s and D70s, and in most cases the axles from those Dodges are among the least desirable on the market. Don't forget the failure prone CAD, when Ford has and still does have manual hubs on their trucks, and an auto hub option for those that are lazy is still superior to a failure prone cad that still allows the parts to turn.
I relize AAM axles are being used now, I'm not a fan of that and prefer the Venerable Dana axles. You already know I am not a fan of the 3rd gens anyway, and I hardly ever refer to them when I am stating something about a Dodge vehicle. My interest is in the 2nd gens, not the 3rd gens. Dodge did use some funky spline counts but that doesn't bother me, they are still very stout, and are proven to hold up. You can make a big deal about the CAD system but it doesn't bothe me one bit. If it ever fails I'll either replace the failing part and go another 100K miles or install a posi lock. Ford guys can have the locking hubs, I have them on my K5 and thats plenty for me.

Here's a picture of it for you. Makes the Dodge 4 link look like garbage in my opinion.
I'm not impressed, those coils look like something that belongs under a Japanese 1/2 ton. I prefer the much larger coils under my Dodge. The links look goofy to me and would seem to me that they would get hung up on something like a rock.

Tim,

If you like talking about how you think this and that is better on the Ford than why didn't you just buy a 2002 Ford then? Sure, you'd have a PSD instead of a cummins but according to you wouldn't the rest of the truck make up for the lack of an ISB?

Front suspension strength? Please. Its a proven leaf setup, I dont think any strength, or lack of strength issues are found between either Dodge or Ford, we all know Chevy isnt part of the argument. The same transfer case is found in both Dodge and Ford, the NP271. While I do agree that the cast iron case of the NV would be nicer than the ZF, I highly doubt that you could find an application to stress the ZF trans to a point beyond what the NV would take. they are both extremely stout transmissions. As was already brought up, the D60 found in the front of Fords is 35 spline, with a 9.75 ring gear, and has manual locking hubs, a unit that is arguably stouter than the Dodge unit. A D80 in a 3/4 SRW truck is damn beefy. That is beyond debate.
I'm not a fan of leaf springs and prefer coils, but I would agree the Ford leaf setup is a proven system. As far the D60 goes.... I know the '05 model is a 35 spline unit but are you saying they all are? Since the retirement of the 50? As far as the manual hubs, the Dodge has flanges with the CAD system and this is a strength topic, not a reliability topic. How about bearing strength on the Ford 60's? :)

I'm not trying to convince you, or anyone else, that the Ford truck is a bad one...because it's not. I originally wanted a Ford PSD and just barely chose a Dodge Cummins over one. I just think that Dodge nailed the drivetrain Catagory on the head(2nd gens).

I relize AAM axles are being used now, I'm not a fan of that and prefer the Venerable Dana axles. You already know I am not a fan of the 3rd gens anyway, and I hardly ever refer to them when I am stating something about a Dodge vehicle.

Better swap that AAM 14 bolt out of your K5 then, and the front 10 bolt too. Oh...I guess AAM axles are only ok when they're under GM? :confused:

My interest is in the 2nd gens, not the 3rd gens. Dodge did use some funky spline counts but that doesn't bother me, they are still very stout, and are proven to hold up.

CADs are proven so strong and reliable...that they don't use any sort of axle disconnect at all anymore.

I'm not impressed, those coils look like something that belongs under a Japanese 1/2 ton. I prefer the much larger coils under my Dodge.

Springs are not designed to look beefy, they're designed to work. Those work fine, to say they're insufficient by appearance is ignorant and uninformed.

The links look goofy to me and would seem to me that they would get hung up on something like a rock.

I have a crawler, I'm not exactly going to drive my new truck over rocks...but those radius arms offer just as much ground clearance, if not more, than the Dodge parallel 4 link, with what appears to be approximately twice the strength.

Tim,

If you like talking about how you think this and that is better on the Ford than why didn't you just buy a 2002 Ford then? Sure, you'd have a PSD instead of a cummins but according to you wouldn't the rest of the truck make up for the lack of an ISB?

I wanted to buy a Ford in 2002. I really wish I would have now, I would have been able to afford it...I just told myself I couldn't, and didn't buy it. I wish I would have now.

I wanted a new truck now...and besides, I looked EVERYWHERE in the country for a decent Ford or Dodge 4wd, 1 ton, SRW, 6 speed Diesel pickup, used. I found two that interested me within 500 miles...and I drove 6 hours to drive them. One was an 04 Dodge with 12k miles, NV 5600, and 4.10 gears for $33k. I wasn't impressed with the acceleration so I walked. The other was a '99 Ram 2500 regular cab which I didn't care for, but what made me walk is that they wouldn't loan me any money to buy it. I had them talked down in the $13k range and they wanted to get me to buy it, but I finally was able to get out the door and away from them. They thought since I drove 400 miles to look at it, that I automatically was going to buy it, which wasn't the case in that instance.

No regrets at all in buying the new Dodge. It's a fine truck.

Better swap that AAM 14 bolt out of your K5 then, and the front 10 bolt too. Oh...I guess AAM axles are only ok when they're under GM? :confused:
I didn't say they aren't any good. I just prefer time and tested iron. I like having a "60" up front, and a D70. I'm sure the new axles are just as good and will find out when I unfortunately have to move up to a later model pickup in few years when it's time to sell my current 2nd gen.


CADs are proven so strong and reliable...that they don't use any sort of axle disconnect at all anymore.

Big deal. The CAD system doesn't have a problem with breaking, it's engaging. I prefer not to have everything spinning up front. If/when my system fails I'll replace the failed part and go another 100K.
Springs are not designed to look beefy, they're designed to work. Those work fine, to say they're insufficient by appearance is ignorant and uninformed.
One thing I like about 3/4 and 1 ton pickups over 1/2 tons is everything is larger. Rear ends are bigger, tires are usually one size larger, big beds, big motors....IMHO that looks cool and the big monster coils on the dodges is icing on the cake in the looks department. That is obviously not very important, but I like the beefy look. I never said they're insufficient because of the way they look....I said they look silly.
I have a crawler, I'm not exactly going to drive my new truck over rocks...but those radius arms offer just as much ground clearance, if not more, than the Dodge parallel 4 link, with what appears to be approximately twice the strength.


I don't just tow my toys with my pickup, I use it around the ranch and drive over levies iinto the rice field and lots of uneven ground. I completely disagree, those giant radius arms look like they hang a LOT lower than the Dodge bottom arms and could get hung up, I've heard numerous comments about this in other threads when the '05's came up at CK5. It may be slightly stronger, but only has two connected points at the frame. I prefer a "4" link and, from my knowledge, Dodge has never had a problem with strength in the suspension department.

I didn't say they aren't any good. I just prefer time and tested iron.

A balljoint, 32 spline Dana 60 is not time and tested iron...it's the appearance of time and tested iron with crap on the inside.

I like having a "60" up front, and a D70.

If telling your buddies that makes you feel warm and fuzzy inside, I'm happy for you. waytogo

I'm sure the new axles are just as good and will find out when I unfortunately have to move up to a later model pickup in few years when it's time to sell my current 2nd gen.

The new axles are pretty much the same as what comes under GM trucks, with some minor appearance differences. Basically my new truck has a 14 SF up front and the bigger 11.5" 14 FF in the rear.

Big deal. The CAD system doesn't have a problem with breaking, it's engaging.

I didn't buy a 4wd truck to end up stuck when it wouldn't engage. If I wanted a 2wd truck, I'd have purchased one, they're quite a bit cheaper.

I prefer not to have everything spinning up front.

The outer axleshafts are still spinning anyway, all the time, every day, everywhere you drive. So, what you meant was, "I prefer for my front driveshaft not to be turning." Me personally, I prefer for nothing to turn. If something is going to turn, it might as well be all of it.

One thing I like about 3/4 and 1 ton pickups over 1/2 tons is everything is larger. Rear ends are bigger, tires are usually one size larger, big beds, big motors....IMHO that looks cool and the big monster coils on the dodges is icing on the cake in the looks department. That is obviously not very important, but I like the beefy look. I never said they're insufficient because of the way they look....I said they look silly.

If the, "beefy look" sells you on a pickup, great. waytogo

Dodge has never had a problem with strength in the suspension department.

I guess all those track bars I sold when I worked the parts counter, and all those people complaining that their rigs wander all over the road aren't suspension strength related complaints. waytogo

the toughest truck built compared to those "other" two goobers building pickups.:pimp:

Hmmm, which one of the big three is the only one who doesnt make a truck beyond 1 ton? Ill give you a hint, it starts with "D" and ends with "odge".

Hmmm, which one of the big three is the only one who doesnt make a truck beyond 1 ton? Ill give you a hint, it starts with "D" and ends with "odge".

Not only that, but Dodge doesn't even make a cab/chassis version of their current pickup.

Hmmm, which one of the big three is the only one who doesnt make a truck beyond 1 ton? Ill give you a hint, it starts with "D" and ends with "odge". rotfl So? I have no interest in medium duty trucks. We weren't even talking about medium duty trucks anyway.

Not only that, but Dodge doesn't even make a cab/chassis version of their current pickup. They did with the 2nd gens. :D

But I do think it's a fair point. Chassis cabs are the bassis for the *real* working class "light duty" truck. Utility beds, lifts, smaller dumps, and cargo vans put more hurt on a chassis than much of anything that can be done with a regular bed. If they don't go after that market, which is pretty much a slam dunk since you only have to take off the bed and make relatively minor changes, then maybe that does say something about their confidence? What else could it be? That Cummins engine would make it a very popular vehicle in the chassis cab market I would think (assuming they can deal with the trans issue and reputation). <shrug> :dunno:

And I was also going to add that they don't even make a real crew cab either, just to stir the pot. ;)

A balljoint, 32 spline Dana 60 is not time and tested iron...it's the appearance of time and tested iron with crap on the inside.
Wrong, it is time and tested iron because it's been under the HD Dodges for years and has done a good job.


If telling your buddies that makes you feel warm and fuzzy inside, I'm happy for you.
Don't act stupid Tim, like I said, I prefer a 60 because it's time and tested iron.

The new axles are pretty much the same as what comes under GM trucks, with some minor appearance differences. Basically my new truck has a 14 SF up front and the bigger 11.5" 14 FF in the rear.
I know whats under the new trucks, I've seen them up close.

I didn't buy a 4wd truck to end up stuck when it wouldn't engage. Neither did I.... :)

The outer axleshafts are still spinning anyway, all the time, every day, everywhere you drive. So, what you meant was, "I prefer for my front driveshaft not to be turning." Me personally, I prefer for nothing to turn. If something is going to turn, it might as well be all of it.
I completely disagree, if something has to turn I prefer the least amount possible. Not having a front driveshaft that is always spinning is a big plus to me.
If the, "beefy look" sells you on a pickup, great. waytogo

It's not that, it's just something that is a by product of an HD pickup, but a good by product.
I guess all those track bars I sold when I worked the parts counter, and all those people complaining that their rigs wander all over the road aren't suspension strength related complaints. waytogo Ya ya ya, everyone knows about the crappy track bars....but a little wander on the highway is different than the raw strength of the suspension system.

Ya ya ya, everyone knows about the crappy track bars....but a little wander on the highway is different than the raw strength of the suspension system.

To talk about a parallel 4 link being strong, with a weak panhard, is ridicoulous.

Lets let that go. I think the points are made and we don't need this to degenerate into an argument on the details.

Lets let that go. I think the points are made and we don't need this to degenerate into an argument on the details.

About two days late for that...:D

LOL, I guess so, but it is the "Brand Wars" forum. :D

But "Wars" or not, after I see basically the same thing back and forth, getting more "short" with each other each time, it's time to stop...


And speaking of Brand Wars...

You see how these Dodge guys are? There are SO MANY problems with the Dodges that the Dodge guys are arguing among themselves as to which has the WORST Dodge... rotfl rotfl rotfl rotfl

You see how these Dodge guys are? There are SO MANY problems with the Dodges that the Dodge guys are arguing among themselves as to which has the WORST Dodge... rotfl rotfl rotfl rotfl

Man, only Dodge guys would argue amongst themselves about which particular Dodge is best.rotfl

Man, only Dodge guys would argue amongst themselves about which particular Dodge is best.rotfl

C'mon now, you ordered a 6.0L truck, play nice. rotfl

And you, Russ, with your IFS self.....rotfl rotfl rotfl waytogo

Yup, I sure did. And it's the only brand whose HD pickups are 100% different than their light duty trucks. Also the only brand whose HD pickups use the same frame as the heavier duty trucks that are turned into dump trucks, wreckers and so on.

And you, Russ, with your IFS self.....rotfl rotfl rotfl waytogo
Hey now, you REALLY don't want to get me started on IFS again do ya? Well DO YA!? Go ahead, make my day!
(Nobody says it like Clint)

rotfl rotfl

BTW, it's still technically an "LD" truck, even up to the 450 and 550 too I think. Not sure where it officially crosses over, but 650 I think? Not even 100% sure I got the numbers correct...

Actually, I gotta give that to Ford. Very cool that I can pick up a F450 (and 550?) with a pickup bed, and I thought seriously about it when I bought my HD.

Though it does come with the 6.0 and other things like the Ford interior that really turns me back. Something about those 19"(?) wheels and macho capability... <insert Tim Allen grunt>

LD truck, HD pickup... semantics.:D You know what I mean.waytogo

Hey now, you REALLY don't want to get me started on IFS again do ya? Well DO YA!? Go ahead, make my day!
(Nobody says it like Clint)

rotfl rotfl

I'm kidding man, damn, relax.waytogo rotfl rotfl

We all know the truth, I was debating with a true Ford guy wearing a Dodge ball cap. rotfl

We all know the truth, I was debating with a true Ford guy wearing a Dodge ball cap. rotfl

I'm not a true anything guy. I buy what is best for me, and right now, in my opinion, the Dodge is the best truck on the market.

GM and the Duramax are better.

You guys are just Pi$$ed cause you weren't smart enough to realize that when you got your trucks and now you can't give them away. LOL

Pot Stirred and I am out.rotfl

GM and the Duramax are better.

You guys are just Pi$$ed cause you weren't smart enough to realize that when you got your trucks and now you can't give them away. LOL

Pot Stirred and I am out.rotfl

Rabble rabble! RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE!rotfl

GM and the Duramax are better.

You guys are just Pi$$ed cause you weren't smart enough to realize that when you got your trucks and now you can't give them away. LOL

Pot Stirred and I am out.rotflI bet it never rains in your world either right?:D

As a matter of fact, it rarely does. But maybe that's because I live in Phoenix? rotfl

I bet it never rains in your world either right?:D

As a matter of fact no it doesn't. I live in a perfect little oasis. My wife tells me so all of the time. rotfl




All the new diesel trucks are equal in my eye. The each have their problems and also their strong points.

Edit GM is still best :pimp:

All the new diesel trucks are equal in my eye. The each have their problems and also their strong points:pimp: I would agree 100%!

Edit GM is still best I would disagree 100%! :)

I would disagree 100%! Yeah, but we all know you drive a Dodge (ever wonder where the word "Dodgy" came from? rotfl ) and like the "wide wheel look" with shiny paint and billet grill stuff... so everyone knows your opinions are of no value...

rotfl rotfl

Just kidding Bobby; well, about everything but the wide wheel stuff anyway... :o

I agree Dodge definately has the strongest powertrain available. First off i have a 01 ctd longbed 4wd and after putting 100k on it the only way ill own another brand of truck is if someone else gets the CUmmins contract. My truck may not have the "luxury" interior of the chevy but hey i bought a truck to work with thats why i opted for the vinyl floors. ANyways lets look at front axles. Dodge has been putting the Dana 60 in the front for years. WHat does chevy/gm off a lame ifs front for their "hd" trucks. What about Ford u say? Not until the new 05's did they get rid of the Dana 50 and opt for the 60 and im not sure if thats available in the F250. As far as trannys go i will give it chevy for the nice allison but what can they offer a guy that likes to shift gears? The NV 4500 and 5600 are the best 5 and 6 speed trannys available without a doubt the only draw back is the almost 20 dollar a quart price tag for the synthetic fluid they require. Some might say that FOrd has a nice six speed but a friend of mine would argue against that since he seems to replace a tranny in 1 of his dad's 5 F350 every six months. So basically what i am trying to get at is that its not what manufacturers name is on the truck its the manufacturers' names on the parts that count. New Venture Gear, Dana Spicer, and oh yeah can't forget Cummins.

The D60 has been in the front of F350 and F250s since 2002. You're also making arguments about an older truck when it comes to axles and manual transmission. Dodge has not used Dana axles for a few years now, they use AAM axles, the same people that make the axles for Chevy. The Chevy IFS is plenty strong for what it does, it's not for everyone but it does do the job.

Dodge doesn't even use the NV 5600 or NV4500 anymore, they went to a new trans from Daimler, I beleive. The ZF 6 speed in the Ford and Chevy is a very reliable trans, I've never heard of it having problems other than with the dual mass flywheel that's in the GM trucks.

I'm not arguing that Dodge doesn't make a nice truck with a great engine, but it is not the best truck stem to stern hands down no questions asked like so many Dodge fans like to argue. The auto has had problems, even the NV4500 has had it's share of problems with the input going south.

It's interesting that some people like to choose a narrow range of older model trucks and argue the benefits of those like they're still being made today. To me it appears that you own a particular brand and vintage truck and are rather biased by that fact.

Ditto what Shaggy said. Same as I would say, almost point for point... And I have a neighbor who would argue LOUDLY against the quality of the NV4500 in a *stock* CTD dually he had.

GM is beetteerr neeeneeer neeeneeer neeeeneer:stir:






























:popcorn: rotfl

Yeah, but we all know you drive a Dodge (ever wonder where the word "Dodgy" came from? rotfl ) and like the "wide wheel look" with shiny paint and billet grill stuff... so everyone knows your opinions are of no value...

rotfl rotfl

Just kidding Bobby; well, about everything but the wide wheel stuff anyway... :o
Thanks a lot Russ. :rolleyes:

It's interesting that some people like to choose a narrow range of older model trucks and argue the benefits of those like they're still being made today. To me it appears that you own a particular brand and vintage truck and are rather biased by that fact.

It's a second gen Cummins thing I guess...some of us that have 2nd gens find the newer 3rd gens hard to accept with their quiet Cummins engine and questionable interior. Most of us will compare anything that has been out or just came out of detroit against our 2nd gens because they are what we own and love. Our second gens may be "vintage" but really we are talking about trucks that are only a few years old.

Our second gens may be "vintage" but really we are talking about trucks that are only a few years old.

I didn't mean that they're old, I meant it in the sense of "a period of origin or manufacture", i.e. second gen Dodges.waytogo

Thanks a lot Russ. :rolleyes:
LOL, no problem, any time...

rotfl I'm just having fun with this forum...

ONe question if Ford and gm make such good diesels why does dodge hold the majority of the diesel market year in and year out???

Where did you get your stats? I have no idea if that is accurate or not. Could be like Fords "we sell the most trucks" but it is in large part due to the way the "count" and the HUGE Ford fleet incentives. I know GM hasn't had a decent diesel until recently, and it also has the most expensive diesel option, so that has an effect. Dodge has the cheapest diesel LD truck, and the Cummins is a good selling point, so it may be true, I have no idea.

But even if it is true, it would in no way imply that they are "best", it only says they sell the most in that category... Ford Taurus supposedly has most of the segment wrapped up, would you say it's the "best" mid/full size car out there? Or do you think maybe the BMW 7 series or Cadilac, other competitors might actually build a better car, even if they don't sell as many?

The main thing that the Dodge has going for it is it's history in the diesel market, which is much longer and more illustrious than Ford or GMs, and it has the legions of Cummins faithful. That's the thing though, it's not the Dodge, it's the Cummins. If Dodge dropped the Cummins and someone else picked it up, the name alone would draw the legions along with it. Without the Cummins the Dodge is just another truck with a tiny backseat.

Saying it's the best because it sells the most is like saying Wal-Mart is the best store because it has the highest sales numbers of all stores.

comparing a taurus to a bmw or caddy is like comparing apples and oranges. i doubt owners of those cars even appear in the same tax bracket but thats another post. I guess i get my ideas on the market holdings of the big three just from what i gather during everyday driving. I recently went on 7000 mile excursion and it seemed that for every 5 dodge diesels i saw i only saw maybe 3 fords or chevys

I agree with that SHaggy. I told by dad a few weeks ago that when i get ready to buy a new diesel i buy from whoever puts the cummins in their truck i dont care if its nissan....ok maybe wouldnt go that far.

Sure, the BMW thing was a stretch, but it makes the point very clear that "most" is not the same as "best". Same as with Shaggy and the "Walmart" point.

And basing your assertion on what you notice on the road is not very solid ground. If it's a guesstimate or opinion, it's usually a good idea to say so rather than stating something as if it were a fact, particularly when you make it as sweeping as "year in and year out"...

Looks like Dodge is actually dead last for the last 3 years...

SEMA got this data from Wards Auto.


Here are the 2004 Diesel pickup production #'s:

Dodge - 87,342
GM - 114,641
Ford - 171,039

Here are the 2003 Diesel pickup production #'s:

Dodge - 112,617 (HO and non-HO)
GM - 147,860
Ford - 167,667 (6.0 and 7.3)

Here are the 2002 Diesel pickup production #'s:

Dodge - 70,979
GM - 74,395
Ford - 241,286

I believe those numbers.....it's nice seeing a Cummins Dodge go by between Ford after Ford after Ford after Ford after Ford.......SD's have gotten boring to me because everyone and their dog has one.

Yep, they are really common around here for sure. That was one of the pluses in the GMC column when I was making my decision.:doah:

Yep, they are really common around here for sure. That was one of the pluses in the GMC column when I was making my decision.:doah:If I was going to buy an SD I would at least try and make it stand out. Maybe a set of those new Weld Torque locks that I haven't seen yet and maybe even 5" stacks, I haven't seen any Fords with stacks. Just SOMETHING to make it stand out from every white SD that goes by equipped with a leveling kit and some cheap knock off Welds and BFG's.

Bobby,

Leave California for once. Not everybody here has a lifted up stupid duty.