TowRig.com - Diesel Discussion and Tow Tech

As the owner of a small company, I am constantly amazed at the ever changing rules and regulations in our industry, but more amazing to me is the number of people who think they are running legal and are not even in the neighborhood.

Many times, the DOT officers we encounter in the scale houses as ignorant as the drivers I encounter. With new UCRA rules in effect, and the DOT regulations being handed back to state control, the rules are just going to be growing more confusing.

So here are a couple things that I thought I should point out.

First off, Hot Shot trucks run local and short mileage routes. If you are running out of state or more than 300 miles, you are a Trucking company.

Secondly, anyone hauling for profit, even if you are taking your car to the race track and expect to win or compete professionally, (You are or could get paid) you are required to have a USDOT Number.

If you are for hire in any capacity, even for delivering envelopes and you operate over a 300 mile radius of your home address, you are required to have a USDOT & a ICCMC number. The ICCMC Motor Carrier Number is required for anyone who hires their truck to someone else to carry cargo. If you are for Hire, You are required to have this number. The cost is about 300, but that is just the beginning.

Progressive does not offer, nor have they ever offered Commercial trucking insurance and the Commercial insurance they do offer is not valid over 300 miles from your home base. There are no exceptions to that rule.

USDOT requires a minimum of 750,000 Commercial insurance, and Pennsylvania requires 1,000,000 minimum.

Cargo insurance is not Commercial Vehicle insurance. Lloyds of London underwrites over 80% of all cargo transported in the world, and is one of the 3 companies that offers cargo Insurance for Small Trucks or "Hot Shots". Insurance rund 6,000 - 8,000 per year per truck. If you are not paying in that neighborhood, you are probably not properly insured.

PUlling oversized loads is another problem area. Anyone ANYONE, carry a cargo over 8'6" wide, or 13'6" tall is required by law to obtain oversized permits for transport on state or federal highways. This is for safety reasons and the permits are not expensive.

Any Trailer or cargo over 14' wide is required to have Pilot Cars and escorts. This is expensive but getting caught with out them will probably put you into bankruptcy.

Before you can legally operate, you must have COMPLETED a State Safety Audit by an officer of the Department of Transportation in your home state.
This is where you will have a chance to find out how much we really don't know.

In regards to sleepers on pick ups. There are two rules here, and you can do as you wish. This will mostly come down to company policy, so please make sure you check with your director of operations for the company poilicies.

If you are in a pick up, your back seat, while sufficient for most, cannot be used for sleeper berth do to the width of it. It would have to be stretched wider. When you have completed your daily driving, you can log yourself off duty. When you are not on duty, you are not required by law to show where you slept, or if you stayed in a hotel. IF you choose to sleep in your truck, that is your own personal business and the only way this could be an issue, is if you were woken up in the middle of the night by a DOT officer who asked if you were on duty or off, and asked to see your log book, while legally you can win this case, you would probably still get a ticket and have to go to court, but this have never happened to me or any other driver I know.

These are just a few rules and I will be more than happy to have myself or my compliance officer address any questions any of you may have.

Tim Blondin
www.waytogoGiddyupngo.com

i was under the impression HOT SHOT was used for mini floats or just one tons regardless of how far you drive...my company is ISLAND HOTSHOT and i drive anywhere in the U.S. and CANADA, wether i am pulling my 47ft gn or someones bumper pull or gn...i am registered for 36000 total, got to go wife is screaming saying the turkey is ready, happy turkey day to everyone!!

I googled UCR and I still have no idea what it is. One on-line company said for $500 they could get you your DOT and MC #'s and one other thing (sorry I forgot) and for bout $50 more they could get/do the UCR thing.

For a long time I always thought 'hot shot' was a single axle straight truck with a 60" sleeper and a 20' box....that or a goofy movie. :D

http://www.idtrucking.org/oldsite/archives/newsletters/2006/march/simplify.htm


go here and click on your state.


http://www.ucr.in.gov/

Ok, I get it now, UCRA replaces SSRS, which replaced bingo's. Got it.waytogo

As the owner of a small company, I am constantly amazed at the ever changing rules and regulations in our industry, but more amazing to me is the number of people who think they are running legal and are not even in the neighborhood.

Many times, the DOT officers we encounter in the scale houses as ignorant as the drivers I encounter. With new UCRA rules in effect, and the DOT regulations being handed back to state control, the rules are just going to be growing more confusing.

So here are a couple things that I thought I should point out.

First off, Hot Shot trucks run local and short mileage routes. If you are running out of state or more than 300 miles, you are a Trucking company.

Secondly, anyone hauling for profit, even if you are taking your car to the race track and expect to win or compete professionally, (You are or could get paid) you are required to have a USDOT Number.

If you are for hire in any capacity, even for delivering envelopes and you operate over a 300 mile radius of your home address, you are required to have a USDOT & a ICCMC number. The ICCMC Motor Carrier Number is required for anyone who hires their truck to someone else to carry cargo. If you are for Hire, You are required to have this number. The cost is about 300, but that is just the beginning.

Progressive does not offer, nor have they ever offered Commercial trucking insurance and the Commercial insurance they do offer is not valid over 300 miles from your home base. There are no exceptions to that rule.

USDOT requires a minimum of 750,000 Commercial insurance, and Pennsylvania requires 1,000,000 minimum.

Cargo insurance is not Commercial Vehicle insurance. Lloyds of London underwrites over 80% of all cargo transported in the world, and is one of the 3 companies that offers cargo Insurance for Small Trucks or "Hot Shots". Insurance rund 6,000 - 8,000 per year per truck. If you are not paying in that neighborhood, you are probably not properly insured.

PUlling oversized loads is another problem area. Anyone ANYONE, carry a cargo over 8'6" wide, or 13'6" tall is required by law to obtain oversized permits for transport on state or federal highways. This is for safety reasons and the permits are not expensive.

Any Trailer or cargo over 14' wide is required to have Pilot Cars and escorts. This is expensive but getting caught with out them will probably put you into bankruptcy.

Before you can legally operate, you must have COMPLETED a State Safety Audit by an officer of the Department of Transportation in your home state.
This is where you will have a chance to find out how much we really don't know.

In regards to sleepers on pick ups. There are two rules here, and you can do as you wish. This will mostly come down to company policy, so please make sure you check with your director of operations for the company poilicies.

If you are in a pick up, your back seat, while sufficient for most, cannot be used for sleeper berth do to the width of it. It would have to be stretched wider. When you have completed your daily driving, you can log yourself off duty. When you are not on duty, you are not required by law to show where you slept, or if you stayed in a hotel. IF you choose to sleep in your truck, that is your own personal business and the only way this could be an issue, is if you were woken up in the middle of the night by a DOT officer who asked if you were on duty or off, and asked to see your log book, while legally you can win this case, you would probably still get a ticket and have to go to court, but this have never happened to me or any other driver I know.

These are just a few rules and I will be more than happy to have myself or my compliance officer address any questions any of you may have.

Tim Blondin
www.waytogoGiddyupngo.com (http://www.waytogoGiddyupngo.com)

Tim,
You are correct on everything but the oversize load statement on pilot cars. I will just add to your post. Each state has its own rules on how many pilot cars you need and what type of lighting and how many signs you need or flags. Each state has it's on Provisional Sheet, some states you need 1 pilot car, some two and up to three. Generally, over 12'6" wide to 14' wide one pilot, 14' to 16' wide two pilots. This is just general info however, each state has its own provisional. Some states like Indiana only require only 1 pilot in the rear on a 4 lane divided highway with a 16' wide, on the flip side W. Virginia you need 3 pilot cars for a 16' wide, In Minnesota they're rules are anything over 14'6 wide is considered a super wide load, which means you can move it only between the hours of 12:00 and 5:00 A.M. at night with either a police escort or Minnesota certified escorts. Hauling Oversize loads is not for people that want to run illegal, I was stopped once for my mirror extension not being out far enough, which voided my permit, which then I was wrote two tickets, one for mirrors not extending out to see to the rear of my trailer and being over width without a permit because my safety infraction voided my current permit. Not to mention having to wait for another permit to come just for not having the mirrors out another 6" on one side. Tim I understand you being upset with illegally operating drivers, however when getting started if you have no experience, there are a lot of misleading company's out there, even the Dot Officers sometimes have they're own interpretation of some of the laws. If you are getting started with a new company, feel free to pm me I would be glad to give some advice on what needs to happen. I just started my trucking company this year and had no help from anyone. It is very confusing for someone that hasn't been in the interstate hauling business. It is also very expensive to be legal. I haul oversize loads and only oversize loads so I have no choice but to be legal, I get stopped at nearly every open weigh station to be checked. To all the illegal operators that intentionally run that way I hope you feel good about destroying the trucking industry. I pay $12k plus, per vehicle a year for ins, I can't compete with illegals that don't have the ins. overhead.

permits are not expensive.
you haven't purchased a permit to go from knoxville to memphis have ya. LOL

you have hit the nail on the head there are so many that run illegal & it just gets me so upset when I see it & think that is how they can haul cheap freight. about 2 months ago I got hit with a $1,500 fine for being over on my permit, the funny thing was the DOT officer was the same one I had for my DOT audit.rotfl

Where do the people that transport travel trailers fall? I am going to lease my truck to a company for MY profit, hauling their cargo. In live in Ohio and dont even need a CDL if I stay under 26,001 pounds. Will the company I lease on with provide me with the correct USDOT number? Also, I haul my race car trailer on some weekends. Do I have to get a different number for that? I am new to this game so I think I have a lot to learn. Thanks in advance!waytogo

Where do the people that transport travel trailers fall? I am going to lease my truck to a company for MY profit, hauling their cargo. In live in Ohio and don't even need a CDL if I stay under 26,001 pounds. Will the company I lease on with provide me with the correct US DOT number? Also, I haul my race car trailer on some weekends. Do I have to get a different number for that? I am new to this game so I think I have a lot to learn. Thanks in advance!waytogo
I do not know the laws in Slowhio but in NC if you are tagged for 26,000 or less BUT towing in excess of 10,000 lbs you must have a class A drivers license NOT a class A CDL but a class A drivers license. I had a DOT audit about 1 year ago & my wife needs to get a class A to drive my dually, for towing our enclosed car trailer.

That sounds just like Indiana. They call it a Chauffer liscense. Here in Slowhio:) all we need is our Class D operator liscense for up to 26,000. I think they should probly set the bar a little higher myself, but thats what they told me.

It has nothing to do with the weight your towing as to what license you need. Nor does it matter what you have your vehicle plated at for weight. This is the law, does you GCWR exceed 26001. Take the manufactures spec sheet (located in your door jam and on the front of your trailer) and add the GVW of both the truck and trailer together. If it exceeds 26k combined you need a Class A CDL and a medical card to travel interstate. If they exceed 10k but are not over 26k you need a chauffers license. These are federally mandated laws for interstate commercial driving. I hope this clears some things up for you guyswaytogo

It has nothing to do with the weight your towing as to what license you need. Nor does it matter what you have your vehicle plated at for weight. This is the law, does you GCWR exceed 26001. Take the manufactures spec sheet (located in your door jam and on the front of your trailer) and add the GVW of both the truck and trailer together. If it exceeds 26k combined you need a Class A CDL and a medical card to travel interstate. If they exceed 10k but are not over 26k you need a chauffeurs license. These are federally mandated laws for interstate commercial driving. I hope this clears some things up for you guyswaytogo
tosch88 I don't want to start a pissing match on this but there are federal laws then there are state laws. the states are are able to add amendments to federal laws to make the law stronger (if I'm wording it correctly). I always thought the same as you, the federal laws take priority, but was I wrong, I learned that in a Georgia scale house. I don't claim to know it all and if there is anyone that does claim to know it all they are a fool. heck a good veteran from DOT will even tell you he don't know all the laws. many states are different. that is why many of us O/O have said that it should be completely handled by the fed's & not leave it up to the states.

I agree with thatwaytogoI thought you guys were talking about interstate travel not intrastate. My bad! Sorry for sounding like a ****:confused:

While it is true that each state has different requirements for both Permits and for Drivers License requirements, the general rule is this.

26,001 and under: No CDL license required (that is why people can rent uhauls). While many DOT officers are not clear on this rule, it is your responsibility to know the FMCSA hand book and carry a copy of it in your vehicle at all times.

Oversized loads: While the laws state clearly that anything 8'6" (102") wide is legal, it also states that you are allowed =/-4" to each side, which gives you a legal non permitted load width of 110".
Many RV Transporters have been ticketed wrongly because the tow unit has an awning. This puts you over and if you don't know the law, they will take your money gladly. I have transported oversized loads in just about every state and have do not transport over 14' for the reason that I am not going to pay a pilot car 1.30+ per mile. Too much paper work and besides, they slow me down ;)

The most difficult permits are Louisiana because they never answer the phone and you better plan ahead.

UCR: Yes, UCRA has replaced SSR and it is past due if you have not done it yet.

RV Transporters: The truth is, if you want to make little money for your time, and don't mind kissing some guy or gals butt in Indiana or there abouts....IF you don't mind about 40% of your miles empty and you agree with back hauls, then RV transporting is the deal for you. If you want to run your own business, be your own boss and Make an honest days wage for an honest days work, then Stay away from companies like Horizon, Quality, and the other RV Transport companies that have contributed to the decline in rates for all hot shot or small truck trucking companies.

Another thing to consider is this: Are you good at finding loads/generating the work? I know that is a MAJOR weakness I have. In order to have the work you have to be able to make the contacts, know the people, know where to look, know HOW to look. The majority of companies shown in Overdrive or LandLine and such are in the $1.20 to $1.50 range (some higher, some lower) and are in class 8's where you get 5-7MPG and have your own trailer. Yes, there are companies that are paying in the $2 - $3 per mile range, BUT finding them AND them actually wanting you to haul something is almost like trying to find a needle in a haystack (for people like me) I know I work better DOING the work than FINDING the work.

That is why hauling at the $1.50 to $2.00 range sounds so appealing. (Even if its only one way) Especially when the truck has the potential of 10 + MPG and half the payment, tires cost less, brakes too etc..

[quote=tosch88;36593]It has nothing to do with the weight your towing as to what license you need. Nor does it matter what you have your vehicle plated at for weight. This is the law, does you GCWR exceed 26001. Take the manufactures spec sheet (located in your door jam and on the front of your trailer) and add the GVW of both the truck and trailer together. If it exceeds 26k combined you need aUS



THIS IS WRONG!!! A perfect example of someone giving information that is either mistaken or just plain WRONG!!!

The USDOT is a minimum operational standard, and it is used as a base for which each individual state can establish its own rules provided they do not fall below the minimum set forth by the DOT!

You are also wrong about licensing! Each individual state has its own requirements.

Your information on GCWR is also incorrect. THE GCWR is there to let you know your maximum capacities! the GVW is established when you apply for your USDOT number. At your safety audit, they will or should verify that your Declared GVW is not more than the GCVWR of your truck and trailer

i.e. 2006 ram 3500 4X4 (they can pull this up with a vin number at the scales) shows that the GVWR of that truck is 10,000-14,000 pounds!!!

So if you have a 3500 4x4 quad cab dually, it is rated at 12,200. Then you add a 53' Enclosed trailer with a GTWR of 21,000 (3 7K axles) and you get a gross combined weight rating of 33,200 pounds! Then you have to figure 20-25% of the trailer weight will be on the truck triple axles are usually 20% where as 1-2 axles trailers are usually 25% so 20% of 21,000 give you a tongue weight of 4,200 pounds added to the 7,300 pound curb eight of the truck is 11,400 pounds, to which you add your fuel, tools, and equipment as well as driver/passenger weights, if you go over 12,200 on the truck, you are over weight for the truck. There is one secret to this though. If you are pulling a trailer and your GVW is not over the GCVWR of truck and trailer, the scale houses cannot say you are overweight on the truck as you are not able to slide your fifth wheel +/- like a big rig.

This information is found in the FMCSA handbook which is required by law to be kept in all commercial vehicles.

PLEASE MAKE SURE IF YOU ARE GOING TO POST INFORMATION ON THIS THREAD THAT YOU MAKE SURE IT IS CORRECT. IF YOU GIVE SOMEONE WRONG INFORMATION AND THEY GO OUT AND HAVE AN ACCIDENT, IT COLD BE YOUR CHILD OR WIFE OR MOTHER!

This is a dangerous job already, help us make it safer ...PLEASE?

I am just glad that all the hauling I do is for my own Roofing Company. I throw away all my own trash and use a 10 ton or a 7 ton dump trailer. I do have a CDL just in case. I just don't have the air Brake Endorsement.

RV Transporters: The truth is, if you want to make little money for your time, and don't mind kissing some guy or gals butt in Indiana or there abouts....IF you don't mind about 40% of your miles empty and you agree with back hauls, then RV transporting is the deal for you. If you want to run your own business, be your own boss and Make an honest days wage for an honest days work, then Stay away from companies like Horizon, Quality, and the other RV Transport companies that have contributed to the decline in rates for all hot shot or small truck trucking companies.

Ok I know your independent and spend a bunch of money to do that, but don't trash on other ways of making a living driving.

I am an RV HAULER, I DON'T kiss anyones butt, I DO make a living (been for 5 years).

I work hard for the company I am leased to and I keep busy when I want to. I have no need to kiss anybodys butt, actually its more the other way around. They tend to call me, since I work hard and am a reliable and safe driver. I do make a living, no I am not a retired person supplementing my income. I am a 39 year old guy with a wife 2 kids and a mortgage. I also am home every weekend and usually a couple nights during the week, I run mostly the midwest, and southeast, ok, tx, and so on. Am I going to get rich..NO, but I enjoy what I do and it fits me just fine.

BTW I make an HONEST wage.

Haulin...If you dont mind me asking what company do you lease to??

Ok I know your independent and spend a bunch of money to do that, but don't trash on other ways of making a living driving.

I am an RV HAULER, I DON'T kiss anyones butt, I DO make a living (been for 5 years).

I work hard for the company I am leased to and I keep busy when I want to. I have no need to kiss anybodys butt, actually its more the other way around. They tend to call me, since I work hard and am a reliable and safe driver. I do make a living, no I am not a retired person supplementing my income. I am a 39 year old guy with a wife 2 kids and a mortgage. I also am home every weekend and usually a couple nights during the week, I run mostly the midwest, and southeast, ok, tx, and so on. Am I going to get rich..NO, but I enjoy what I do and it fits me just fine.

BTW I make an HONEST wage.


It was not nor is it my intention to insult anyone, I have however a much different view of the RV Transport Companies for a few reasons. While these reasons may not apply to you, they do apply to most. Please don't take my post personally.

Most RV Transport companies, i.e. Horizon Transport, have 1 truck listed on the USDOT FMCSA. they make a lot of money sending drivers from Indiana to Where ever and most of those driver, 70%, return empty to get the next load. They make between .92 - 1.05 on average and while some drivers do get loaded back, most do not. These drivers usually resort to hauling loads "Under the Table" without insurance to cover the cargo and without legal Operating authority.

These drivers usually book on sites such as USHIP and undercut each other to the point that it is not uncommon for customers to call and quote a USHIP price quote to see i I will lower my rate.

I take pride in the fact my drivers make an average of over 7,000 a month (-taxes of about 1600 a year) take home. They drive nice trucks, they have fun and we don't run the same route over and over. Most of my customers are private individuals who have been put off of web sites like USHIP and come seeking a reputable, properly insured carrier who will deliver on the promises we have made to them.

Back haul rates were started by hot shot drivers looking to cover their expenses going home and they are not common language. If you drivers who do this for a living want to help, then you need to be more vocal on or against the drivers who are driving around with NO DOT #, NO ICCMC # and who haul oversized and illegal loads with no regard for safety or the law. I am not saying that all the laws we have to deal with are fair, but they are the laws until they are changed.

Haulin...If you dont mind me asking what company do you lease to?? Sent you a pm

It was not nor is it my intention to insult anyone, I have however a much different view of the RV Transport Companies for a few reasons. While these reasons may not apply to you, they do apply to most. Please don't take my post personally.

Most RV Transport companies, i.e. Horizon Transport, have 1 truck listed on the USDOT FMCSA. they make a lot of money sending drivers from Indiana to Where ever and most of those driver, 70%, return empty to get the next load. They make between .92 - 1.05 on average and while some drivers do get loaded back, most do not. These drivers usually resort to hauling loads "Under the Table" without insurance to cover the cargo and without legal Operating authority.

These drivers usually book on sites such as USHIP and undercut each other to the point that it is not uncommon for customers to call and quote a USHIP price quote to see i I will lower my rate.

I am not insulted at all. It just bothers me when people voice opinions in a public forum about something they have never done. I do understand that you are a transporter, but were you ever leased to one of these companies? You are also making the assumption or at least leading others to believe that most drivers that do not get a back haul look to illegally transport something back. I can tell you in the 5 years I have been doing this I have never met a driver that was hauling something back illegally off a site like Uship. Myself I don't do much at for back hauls at all, I just go back and grab another. BTW you are also off in the rates.

[quote=tosch88;36593]It has nothing to do with the weight your towing as to what license you need. Nor does it matter what you have your vehicle plated at for weight. This is the law, does you GCWR exceed 26001. Take the manufactures spec sheet (located in your door jam and on the front of your trailer) and add the GVW of both the truck and trailer together. If it exceeds 26k combined you need aUS



THIS IS WRONG!!! A perfect example of someone giving information that is either mistaken or just plain WRONG!!!

The USDOT is a minimum operational standard, and it is used as a base for which each individual state can establish its own rules provided they do not fall below the minimum set forth by the DOT!

You are also wrong about licensing! Each individual state has its own requirements.

Your information on GCWR is also incorrect. THE GCWR is there to let you know your maximum capacities! the GVW is established when you apply for your USDOT number. At your safety audit, they will or should verify that your Declared GVW is not more than the GCVWR of your truck and trailer

i.e. 2006 ram 3500 4X4 (they can pull this up with a vin number at the scales) shows that the GVWR of that truck is 10,000-14,000 pounds!!!

So if you have a 3500 4x4 quad cab dually, it is rated at 12,200. Then you add a 53' Enclosed trailer with a GTWR of 21,000 (3 7K axles) and you get a gross combined weight rating of 33,200 pounds! Then you have to figure 20-25% of the trailer weight will be on the truck triple axles are usually 20% where as 1-2 axles trailers are usually 25% so 20% of 21,000 give you a tongue weight of 4,200 pounds added to the 7,300 pound curb eight of the truck is 11,400 pounds, to which you add your fuel, tools, and equipment as well as driver/passenger weights, if you go over 12,200 on the truck, you are over weight for the truck. There is one secret to this though. If you are pulling a trailer and your GVW is not over the GCVWR of truck and trailer, the scale houses cannot say you are overweight on the truck as you are not able to slide your fifth wheel +/- like a big rig.

This information is found in the FMCSA handbook which is required by law to be kept in all commercial vehicles.

PLEASE MAKE SURE IF YOU ARE GOING TO POST INFORMATION ON THIS THREAD THAT YOU MAKE SURE IT IS CORRECT. IF YOU GIVE SOMEONE WRONG INFORMATION AND THEY GO OUT AND HAVE AN ACCIDENT, IT COLD BE YOUR CHILD OR WIFE OR MOTHER!

This is a dangerous job already, help us make it safer ...PLEASE?

I thought the guys were talking about interstate as I know each state can have their own laws as I stated in a later post. You failed to read that, jumped on and bashed someone that was just trying to help.

So what you are saying if I am correct, I do not need a CDL A if my GCWR is over 26001. I have first hand knowledge on these laws(not just what was written in a book and how it was understood) do you?

One of new drivers was caught with a 3500 and 21k gooseneck not loaded (not that it matters but picking up a new trailer for me), all he had was a CDL license( he normally runs intrastate with a 2500 srw and 14k GVW trailer) Ohio scale house pulled him over because the temporary plate was hanging on barely. They decided to do a CVSA audit. My cab & chassis is plated at 26k, the GVW is 12,500, the trailer has a 21k GVW. GCWR of 33,500 therefore he needed his CDL A no airbrakes. This was all I was stating. If you Gcwr of you truck and trailer exceed 26001 you need a CDL A.

That's all great you explained how to load a truck and trailer to maximize its payload without being overweight:eek: The dot officer and state trooper of Ohio were more that happy to explain and right tickets because my driver did not have a CDL A and his GCWR exceeded the the CDL. How you load you trailer and truck was not part of the issue's the previous posts where talking about. I highly doubt that 2 Dot officers and a commercial state police officer where mistaken.

You seem to jump to conclusion's very quickly and not completely read the posts. I may not be as experienced as you but I can tell you surely you don't know it all about hauling as I surely don't. I would like to say I understand the FMSCA book and am complaint but Dot officers interpret the laws differently.This has been my experience although it is limited to the fact I pull permitted loads everyday for a living (150 plus loads this year). I talk to Dot Officers everyday in scale houses.

As far as being safe, You certainly shouldn't make accusations about other business owners hauling habits that you know absolutely nothing about!

Maybe we shouldn't post to help people at all? Isn't that what this forum is all aboutwaytogo Furthermore isn't it the responsibility of the hauler to understand the laws and do there own research in end.:stir:

[quote=dodgerep;36682]

I thought the guys were talking about interstate as I know each state can have their own laws as I stated in a later post. You failed to read that, jumped on and bashed someone that was just trying to help.

So what you are saying if I am correct, I do not need a CDL A if my GCWR is over 26001. I have first hand knowledge on these laws(not just what was written in a book and how it was understood) do you?

One of new drivers was caught with a 3500 and 21k gooseneck not loaded (not that it matters but picking up a new trailer for me), all he had was a CDL license( he normally runs intrastate with a 2500 srw and 14k GVW trailer) Ohio scale house pulled him over because the temporary plate was hanging on barely. They decided to do a CVSA audit. My cab & chassis is plated at 26k, the GVW is 12,500, the trailer has a 21k GVW. GCWR of 33,500 therefore he needed his CDL A no airbrakes. This was all I was stating. If you Gcwr of you truck and trailer exceed 26001 you need a CDL A.

That's all great you explained how to load a truck and trailer to maximize its payload without being overweight:eek: The dot officer and state trooper of Ohio were more that happy to explain and right tickets because my driver did not have a CDL A and his GCWR exceeded the the CDL. How you load you trailer and truck was not part of the issue's the previous posts where talking about. I highly doubt that 2 Dot officers and a commercial state police officer where mistaken.

You seem to jump to conclusion's very quickly and not completely read the posts. I may not be as experienced as you but I can tell you surely you don't know it all about hauling as I surely don't. I would like to say I understand the FMSCA book and am complaint but Dot officers interpret the laws differently.This has been my experience although it is limited to the fact I pull permitted loads everyday for a living (150 plus loads this year). I talk to Dot Officers everyday in scale houses.

As far as being safe, You certainly shouldn't make accusations about other business owners hauling habits that you know absolutely nothing about!

Maybe we shouldn't post to help people at all? Isn't that what this forum is all aboutwaytogo Furthermore isn't it the responsibility of the hauler to understand the laws and do there own research in end.:stir:


You are misinformed and you are wrong! I am very familiar with OHIO DOT and how many tickets they write knowing full well that the tickets are bogus. They also know that it is very unlikely that you are going to drive thousands of miles to fight the ticket and thus it is a great resource of revenue for the state. I have fought every one of my Ohio tickets and won. WHY? Because I know the law and If you are a business owner and you are not fighting every ticket, then you are either knowingly breaking the laws, and then just admitting to them, or you don't know the laws.

How many trucks do you operate and how long have you been in the transportation business? Just curious....

I looked it up on the FMSCA site, section 383.91 in your book states:
§383.91 Commercial motor vehicle groups.
(a) Vehicle group descriptions. Each driver applicant must possess and be tested on his/her knowledge and skills, described in subpart G of this part, for the commercial motor vehicle group(s) for which he/she desires a CDL. The commercial motor vehicle groups are as follows:
(a)(1) Combination vehicle (Group A) — Any combination of vehicles with a gross combination weight rating (GCWR) of 11,794 kilograms or more (26,001 pounds or more) provided the GVWR of the vehicle(s) being towed is in excess of 4,536 kilograms (10,000 pounds).
(a)(2) Heavy Straight Vehicle (Group B) — Any single vehicle with a GVWR of 11,794 kilograms or more (26,001 pounds or more), or any such vehicle towing a vehicle not in excess of 4,536 kilograms (10,000 pounds) GVWR.
(a)(3)Small Vehicle (Group C) — Any single vehicle, or combination of vehicles, that meets neither the definition of Group A nor that of Group B as contained in this section, but that either is designed to transport 16 or more passengers including the driver, or is used in the transportation of materials found to be hazardous for the purposes of the Hazardous Materials Transportation Act and which require the motor vehicle to be placarded under the Hazardous Materials Regulations (49 CFR part 172, subpart F).


Am I still misinformed? I believe this is exactly what I was stating? Please show me proof otherwise and I will agree with you. If not I was not misinformed. I did check out your new post, pretty impressive biography, not sure how that helps any of us on this forum. This will be my last post on this issue as I'm sure we have beat it to death. Again I don't know it all and will never claim I do!

reguardless of the arguement, i'm a licensed class A CDL holder in the state of ohio. to simplify, you have to have a class A if the combination vehicle(truck and trailer) GVWR 26,001 lbs.or more, or the towed veh is in excess or 10,000lbs. Class B is a single veh. over 26,001 lbs. Class C is any veh not defined by Class A or B, but either is designed to transport 16 or more pass. including driver or is placarded for HAZ MATL's and any school bus less than 26,001lbs GVWR designed to transport less than 16 pass. including the driver.

reguardless of the arguement, i'm a licensed class A CDL holder in the state of ohio. to simplify, you have to have a class A if the combination vehicle(truck and trailer) GVWR 26,001 lbs.or more, or the towed veh is in excess or 10,000lbs. Class B is a single veh. over 26,001 lbs. Class C is any veh not defined by Class A or B, but either is designed to transport 16 or more pass. including driver or is placarded for HAZ MATL's and any school bus less than 26,001lbs GVWR designed to transport less than 16 pass. including the driver.

does this apply to personal use as well? for example, when i moved accross the states i drove the entire way through OH, and NEVER once got stopped. i was over GCWR for my truck by 2,000 lbs, but still under 26k.

does this apply to personal use as well? for example, when i moved accross the states i drove the entire way through OH, and NEVER once got stopped. i was over GCWR for my truck by 2,000 lbs, but still under 26k.
i was just writing the law how it written for this particular state. if your truck/trailer is plated for commercial use it applies. did you go through any weigh stations? there not going to pull everybody over, i've never been pulled over in this state even when driving tractor trailer. The only thing i've noticed is that unless you give them a reason(looking like your grossly overweight or your vehicle is extremely unkempt or in poor condition)you've got nothing to worry about.

i was just writing the law how it written for this particular state. if your truck/trailer is plated for commercial use it applies. did you go through any weigh stations? there not going to pull everybody over, i've never been pulled over in this state even when driving tractor trailer. The only thing i've noticed is that unless you give them a reason(looking like your grossly overweight or your vehicle is extremely unkempt or in poor condition)you've got nothing to worry about.

i drove cross country and didnt stop at any weigh stations. i was over weight at one toll, and i just kept going though... lol:stir:

As the owner of a small company, I am constantly amazed at the ever changing rules and regulations in our industry, but more amazing to me is the number of people who think they are running legal and are not even in the neighborhood.


Progressive does not offer, nor have they ever offered Commercial trucking insurance and the Commercial insurance they do offer is not valid over 300 miles from your home base. There are no exceptions to that rule.

USDOT requires a minimum of 750,000 Commercial insurance, and Pennsylvania requires 1,000,000 minimum.

These are just a few rules and I will be more than happy to have myself or my compliance officer address any questions any of you may have.

Tim Blondin
www.waytogoGiddyupngo.com (http://www.waytogoGiddyupngo.com)

I own a Trucking Company and my insurance is under writen by Progessive, $1,000,000.00 policy. If I want to run over 300 mile radius they will cover me, it just costs more money.

I can legally run over 300 miles without a USDOT number as long as I'm running INTRASTATE, if I cross state lines then I need a USDOT number.

I own a Trucking Company and my insurance is under writen by Progessive, $1,000,000.00 policy. If I want to run over 300 mile radius they will cover me, it just costs more money.

I can legally run over 300 miles without a USDOT number as long as I'm running INTRASTATE, if I cross state lines then I need a USDOT number.


Who do you get your cargo insurance from???

Who do you get your cargo insurance from???

I run dump trucks, a load value runs $250.00 to $2500.00, so I don't carry cargo insurance. ;)

Doesn't matter what the value of the load is, how do you get away with it? Been noticing the ratty local dirt haulers around here, no numbers on the POS's, stuff falling off, no current IFTA decals, so..... tires bald as a babys ass. Hell, maybe I'll just buy a couple of ratty trucks myself and when one breaks just sell it too julio and crew and jump in another one! :popcorn:

I drove for a fairly big paving contractor for 9 years in Lake & McHenry Counties in NE Illinois and because we hauled our own product (asphalt) we didn't use MC or DOT #'s. Now had we been 'for hire' ie: brokers, we would've had to have #'s. At least thats what I've been told. Landscapers are like that too. I've seen some with numbers and some without. I guess it might have something to do with who your hauling for and your status as 'for hire' or not. Just guessing on this one.

MR BIG RAM do you even know the difference between 'cargo' insurance and PL&PD insurance? I carry 1 MILLION DOLLARS of PL&PD insurance, but if I damage the CARGO I'm carrying I'll eat that cost.

I also run Progressive, and have an unlimited mileage radius. Progressive does NOT offer conventional cargo insurace, though. I have mine through a seperate carrier.

Progressive does have restictions that state you can not haul raw steel. You can run the finished products, but not raw steel.

I took the time to get MC authority, USdot #, and all proper licencing and insurance.... PAIN IN THE BUTT!!!!

It kills me that I am struggling to get by, but guys are running illegal and thriving because they dont have the overhead. I only hope that it will catch up to them.

Thats one reason that holds me back form wanting to get into hot shotting is all the guys doing it under the table and making a killing. I realize more and more industrys suffer this over time but one would think those great politicians we vote in would help a working man(or woman) out.

I know how you guys feel. I am a roofing contractor in South Florida and am constantly loosing work to guys that pirate the business. If I didn't have to pay the insurances that I pay I could make a killing.

Most of em do shoddy work as well or dont complete the jobs dont know how many news specials I have seen on that one.

I drove for a fairly big paving contractor for 9 years in Lake & McHenry Counties in NE Illinois and because we hauled our own product (asphalt) we didn't use MC or DOT #'s. Now had we been 'for hire' ie: brokers, we would've had to have #'s. At least thats what I've been told. Landscapers are like that too. I've seen some with numbers and some without. I guess it might have something to do with who your hauling for and your status as 'for hire' or not. Just guessing on this one.



The law is very clear that any combination of vehicle and trailer that has a GVW of 10,000 or more is a commercially rated vehicle. This applies to landscapers, contractors and etc.... They get away with it because they are not honest, legal or ethical.

There are laws, handbooks, and DOT offices that people can call to find out, but they do not do the homework and it will not effect them until they kill someone or themselves.

Yeah, I was talking about "For Hire" Guys that cross state lines. Anytime you do that, you have to be running under SOMEONES authority. Nearly all companies that are hiring the loads out do not provide that authority. In this case, you have to have your own MC number and DOT #. Having an MC number now means you will have TRUE commercial trucking insurance, not just courier commercial insurance like state farm or so many others would offer.
Progressive does offer trucking insurance, but there are a LOT of stipulations that you have to watch for. Such as, if you have a gooseneck trailer, you are limited to a 300 mile radius. Doesn't matter what the GVW is, just that it is a gooseneck.

If you are running for hire without your own (or someone else's) MC authority and are crossing state lines, YOU ARE ILLEGAL!

If you are not paying AT LEAST 200-500 a month for insurance and are hauling for hire interstate, you ARE ILLEGAL!!

This is one of my biggest pet peeves , and I am sorry to vent.

Yeah, I was talking about "For Hire" Guys that cross state lines. Anytime you do that, you have to be running under SOMEONES authority. Nearly all companies that are hiring the loads out do not provide that authority. In this case, you have to have your own MC number and DOT #. Having an MC number now means you will have TRUE commercial trucking insurance, not just courier commercial insurance like state farm or so many others would offer.
Progressive does offer trucking insurance, but there are a LOT of stipulations that you have to watch for. Such as, if you have a gooseneck trailer, you are limited to a 300 mile radius. Doesn't matter what the GVW is, just that it is a gooseneck.

If you are running for hire without your own (or someone else's) MC authority and are crossing state lines, YOU ARE ILLEGAL!

If you are not paying AT LEAST 200-500 a month for insurance and are hauling for hire interstate, you ARE ILLEGAL!!

This is one of my biggest pet peeves , and I am sorry to vent.

Since I run primarly Intrastate I only have a state MC permit, when I do run Interstate I lease onto my friends company an run under his USDOT/ICC number. With 1 Million USD PL-PD and 100K UIM and 55K Coll my insurance runs 4-5K a year. That's with no acidents or tickets for over 10 years, :doah: My grandfather's brother started out with a wagon and a team of mules and latter moved into gas then diesel powered trucks, so we;ve been around the block a few times. ;)

I wasn't venting against anyone in particular, just venting.

It all stemmed from talking to a couple young guys that were picking up a trailer while I was picking up a new gooseneck today. They were buying a 10 ton speedloader to haul cars and equipment. They were talking about all the money they were going to be making on loads, and how busy they were. They were driving a new truck with a diesel, and I know they needed MC # because they were talking about heading right out of state to get a car.

Lord knows these guys weren't running legal, but they were sure taking loads from the guys who are. And they are making a killing while it lasts without paying for all the insurance.

Hope I didn't offend anyone, unless your running illegal or not taking the time to check out the laws.

I wasn't venting against anyone in particular, just venting.

It all stemmed from talking to a couple young guys that were picking up a trailer while I was picking up a new gooseneck today. They were buying a 10 ton speedloader to haul cars and equipment. They were talking about all the money they were going to be making on loads, and how busy they were. They were driving a new truck with a diesel, and I know they needed MC # because they were talking about heading right out of state to get a car.

Lord knows these guys weren't running legal, but they were sure taking loads from the guys who are. And they are making a killing while it lasts without paying for all the insurance.



Hope I didn't offend anyone, unless your running illegal or not taking the time to check out the laws.

My insurance runs 730 per month per truck to run 1 million liability, 100K Cargo and Physical damage. I have been fighting illegal hot shotters for years. They are no better to me than illegal aliens running our borders!

The rules to be legal are difficult to keep track of when they change every 2 weeks, and it can be frustrating, but if I can do it, so can they!

Companies like USHIP and Findahauler have no screening processes and they know they provide a breeding place for these illegal transporters to operate. Uship makes an average of 125,000 per day on commissions, but has no brokers license or authority to broker loads.

It really sucks, and while it hurts me, I was here when they got here and I will be here when they are gone

Yeah, but it makes it even more difficult for those of us just starting out to get a foothold with any customers when you are competing against someone with hardly any overhead.

In the long run, I know that providing the best service and all the legal authority will pay off.