1st gen cummins VS 97 Powerstroke

Discussion in 'Brand Wars' started by OldIronHauler, Jan 15, 2008.

  1. OldIronHauler

    OldIronHauler New Member

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    I curently haul with a 97 f350 dually with a 9ft utility box 7.3 automatic tranny. I have put some money into it including alittle extra power. I am currently running an edge programmer, cold air intake, and straight exhuast with a 5" stack. I am thinking about trading my trailer for a bigger one so instead of hauling 15,000 lbs i would be up to about 24,000 lbs. I have a chance to pick up a mint condition 93 1 ton dodge club cab dually with a 5.9 and a 5 speed. I was wandering what your thoughts are on either one of these trucks for this heavy hauling?
     
  2. RJF's Red Cummins

    RJF's Red Cummins TRC Staff Moderator

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    You wouldn't gain anything going to the Dodge, if anything you'd go backwards as you have your Stroker already how you like it.

    24K trailer weight is too much for your truck, legally anyway.... Ford's rating isn't even 24K for the trailer, truck, and all!

    If you want to pull the weight legally and much safer, you want to look into an F550 or bigger.
     
  3. OldIronHauler

    OldIronHauler New Member

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    Main question here was about power. My f350 is pretty gutless in the hills with the 15,000 lb trailer. Will the cummins be any better though? I just always heard the cummins will have alot more torque and im just assuming the 5 speed manual is better than the 4 speed auto? I know my buddies 98 24valve with a 5 speed manual will out pull my 7.3 all day through the hills with that much weight. I just dont have any experience with the older 1st gens.
     
  4. Woods

    Woods Well-Known Member

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    Your going to need some injection pump work to get that 93 cummins to haul the load. Its doesn't have the P pump, but it can be made to run. Then a set of injectors. The 93 probably doesn't have a intercooler, most didn't. Then your going to need a good clutch. Your talking round $1000 just for that. Not trying to talk you out of it, just info.
     
  5. 97powerstroker

    97powerstroker Active Member

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    if your 97 f350 is gutless in the hills,chances are a 93 dodge will be much worse.the ford has 4 more years technology in it,the dodge wont pull it any better in stock form.also,that ford is only rated to tow bt=etween 10-13k i believe.if you wanna pull 15k better buy a newer super duty.24k,you need to start lookin at peterbuilts.waytogo
     
  6. Rob Knoell

    Rob Knoell Well-Known Member

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    I think that you are going to be better off in the Ford that you already have as well. If we were to compare just the motors then you have the larger motor already. If we are going to compare the transmissions then your auto may be giving up something to the standard in the Dodge. I think that you would find with the standard in the Dodge is that there is a large gap between the gears. Under extreamly heavy loads the Dodge will be able to pull trees out of the ground in third gear but you may find that fourth is not enough. And fifth gear is reserved only for towing heavy loads on the flat or a very slight grade. Meanwhile you will be losing momentum everytime you go to shift. I am a huge Dodge fan, but I think that you would be kidding yourself if you think that the 93 Dodge is a better tow rig than your current 'Stroker. Let us know what you decide.

    LT.
     
  7. 97powerstroker

    97powerstroker Active Member

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    it seems like ive been hearing things like this come from dodge guys more and more often.:cool: powerstrokes 4 life!!!!!!!!
     
  8. RJF's Red Cummins

    RJF's Red Cummins TRC Staff Moderator

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    The larger displacement of the T444E has no actuall benifet compared to the 6BT or ISB. Infact, it could be one of the main reasons why Dodges get better fuel mileage on average than Fords.

    Original Poster,

    As already stated, moving down to a '93 Dodge would likely be a bad move. You could make the Dodge outpull your stroker no problem, and net more mph on a hill, but at the cost of losing the automatic and the nicer, later model truck.

    And... if 24K is your plan, both trucks are too small anyway.
     
  9. Diesel Nut

    Diesel Nut Well-Known Member

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    Personally, I think the other way around.

    The Dodge is not a bad idea, and here is why -

    You are going to a 5 speed over your 4 speed auto, better ratios, better ability to use the power.
    Yes, the 93 dodge is Intercooled, the Ford is not.
    Mileage with the Dodge will be better, as will torque.
    Your Ford is Rated @ 225hp/410 ft lbs stock, the Dodge is 160hp/400 ft lbs. Before you start naysaying the 160hp, look at the trq numbers.

    If it were me, and I know this cause I used to have a 93, and it would pull ANYTHING I could hook to it -
    Turn up the pump (free)
    Gauges
    Ice Box intake or home made BHAF
    3200 Governer Kit
    16cm turbo housing
    40hp or 60hp injectors
    Exhaust (straight pipe if you like the rig sound)

    Should put you somewhere in the 250/500 at the tires range with 3200 rpms useable and you'll have less than $2k in upgrades. It will pull, I did all sorts with my 93 with an auto, and a 92 with the 5 speed. Does the truck in question have 3.55 or 4.10 gears?


    So, really, you need to weigh your options. Yes, you are looking at going to an older truck, but you gain 1 extra gear, a stick, better low end, and better mileage loaded. With 3.55's I am sure better mileage unloaded too.
     
  10. OldIronHauler

    OldIronHauler New Member

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    I understand what everyone is saying except for this statement. 4 speed auto in the ford with OD off to tow a heavy load leaves me with 3 gears. This also leaves me screamin at 3000rpm just to go 55mph all day. Then when i see an uphill grade she slows down to 35mph and at that point i down shift to 2nd manually wich now puts me screamin at 3400rpm just to keep on moving at 30-35 mph. Now im confused, is a 5 speed manaul really worse than that? I know a guy that tows with one but the truck is alittle more modified that my old ford so i guess it doesnt do much justice but at most he shifts down to 4th and barely works hard to keep movin. I apreciate all the help but this tranny issue is really the biggest issue. Is there anything i could do for my auto to make it any better? I already had a heavy build up becuase i burnt up the stocker but still doesnt seem like the cats meow.
     
  11. Woods

    Woods Well-Known Member

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    Sound slike the situation I had with my chevy 6.5td. I finally made the jump to the cummins and :D 's all the way since.
     
  12. Rob Knoell

    Rob Knoell Well-Known Member

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    Okay, I guess that I may not have explained myself well enough. First, towing 24,000 lbs, that is 12 tons, you will still have problems with speed at the hills. I don't think that you have found the best option here. I have pulled 15,000 lbs with a 93 Dodge with the 5 speed tranny. I am going to tell you that with that much load the truck would only hold 5th gear on the level or a very slight grade. Usually I had to down shift to forth gear to hold the slight grades. Third gear will make the Dodge pull trees out of the ground but with the limited rpm range you will still be going slow. Let's also not forget that while you are down shifting the Dodge you will not be putting power to the ground. Your Ford's automatic will down shift much faster than you will be able to with the standard in the Dodge. But, on the other hand, your Ford gives up power through the automatic. I am going to be gentle and say 10%. The standard does not give up that much. So, the power you feel in the seat of your pants always favors the standard. But, you will be quicker to accelerate with the automatic.

    However, Diesel Nut has hit the nail on the head with his idea for the Dodge. Dodge has, and continues to get, better fuel mileage than any Ford. Keeping all things equal. I have yet to see a Ford get the mileage that a Dodge gets. Not to say that it can't, I just have not seen it yet. And to further his idea about modifications to the Dodge he is right on again. More power, cheaper, better fuel economy, and better engine.:popcorn:

    As for 97 powerstroker, saying he is seeing more and more Dodge guys say this, I only offer the fact that you will be trading a newer truck for an older one. I don't think that the Ford is any better. I only think that it is better to stick with the Devil you know verses one you don't. If it was me and my truck I would forget pulling 12 tons with any pickup truck. If you are serious about pulling this much weight then you should be looking at medium duty at least.:stir:
     
  13. WSTEPHENS

    WSTEPHENS Well-Known Member

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    One thing that no one has talked about is getting the load stopped. You can make these trucks pull anything you want legally or not. But a diesel engine with a load is very hard to stop coming off of the top of the hill. I have a 2005 2500 Dodge and can pull a my trailers up a grade at higher altitudes in 5th or 6th gear but I dont have an exhaust brake and even with a 6K trailer it was a wild ride when I came out of the west end of the the Eisenhower tunnel on I-70 in Colorado in 5th gear. I have to drop down at least 2 gears lower than I used to pull the trailer up the hill.

    I have had a 90 Ford F250 with a IDI 7.3, a 99 Dodge 2500 5.9 ISB and now the 05 and I have pulled trailers in the Rocky Mountains and from Wyoming to PA and back and the first two trucks did not run away like the new one does. I dont intend on reliving that experence again.
     
  14. Mikes06_Ram3500

    Mikes06_Ram3500 Member

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    I generally use my exhaust brake when descending long grades out of Asheville on I-26 heading toward SC. I can't imagine doing the grades out west with a really heavy trailer. At about 8000 pounds most days (one horse, not 3), I can go with either braking through the transmission (manual) or a combination of that and the exhaust brake.

    The exhaust brake certainly gets the job done nicely... but isn't really needed for my normal load.
     

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