Why I think GM is better

Discussion in 'Brand Wars' started by DMAXRIG, Feb 13, 2006.

  1. Splash

    Splash Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2007
    Posts:
    16
    Likes Received:
    0
    DMAXRIG you are right, my dad who is a die hard Ford man said if the 6.4 craps out like the 6.0. Ford can say goodbye light duty diesel market. And yeah you are right the D-Max is the only one that stayed the same size, but the only reason I have had mixed feeling is the constant change. LB7, LLY, LBZ, LMM in only 7 years, but that may have been improvements and GM just wanted to distingiush from the ok that model engine had this problem and was fixed on the rest sorta deal. The next rig my family purchases might be a D-Max, or another Cummins(depends on what the wife wants since it would be hers). But not a Ford, not right now anyway, the 6.4 would have to prove itself.
     
  2. RJF's Red Cummins

    RJF's Red Cummins TRC Staff Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2005
    Posts:
    2,853
    Media:
    68
    Albums:
    4
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    I live in Modesto California
    GM's different engine codes for the Dmax really isn't a big deal. All it is for mainly is a power difference, a turbo, and a couple of short block changes.

    Regardless of the fact that the Dmax is an Izuzu doesn't mean anything bad. Izuzu knows how to build diesel engines.

    Toyota, Dodge, GM, Mitsubishi....they all know how to build or buy a great diesel engine. Regardless of the contenant that they came from has little bearing on which brand to choose for me.

    For me it's more of an "ethical" deal (for lack of better terms) if I could except driving something completely different, like a new 1 ton Toyota vs. the feel of a Dodge or older Chevy that I am used to. It would be more of a decision to buy something that isn't an "american" brand and buy an over seas brand. Any over seas HD pickup is GOING to have it's components on par with our American diesels, guaranteed or they won't sell. Just look at the 1/2ton line, The Nissan Titan and new Toyota Tundra are right there with the GM, Ford, and Dodge 1/2tons in any way and that wouldn't change in the diesel market.

    I highly likely wouldn't buy any Nissan, Mitsu, or Toyota HD diesel pickup ONLY due to the fact that it ISN'T a Dodge, Ford, or GM. Because likely trying to argue that the Jap trucks aren't up to par drivetrain wise would likely be a loosing argument.

    I would imagine that any asian brand HD pickup that comes out will indeed be IFS, I am already figuring that.
     
  3. Diesel-Dude

    Diesel-Dude Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2007
    Posts:
    71
    Media:
    13
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    north central, Ohio
    I love my Dodge, and wouldn't consider driving anything else for right now, but I can honestly say I don't like the way my "American" truck is going. It is built in Mexico and the new 6-speed auto behind the new 6.7L Cummins has "Made in Japan" stamped all over it.:doah:

    There are a few industry rumors I find interesting. First, the 6.6L Duramax has basically remained unchanged due to the fact as it's just a carry-over engine until GM releases it's own in-house diesel engine in a year or two. The general didn't want to burn a bunch of $$$$ to make huge changes to the present 6.6L just to scrap it in favor of it's new engine.

    Second, Ford supposedly is also working on their own in-house V-8 diesel engine due to the bad relationship with Navistar/International. I think this would be a good thing as Ford is no stranger to building diesels and can surly supply their own engines for a lot less than the $7800.00 a piece that Navastar charges them for the 6.4L.

    And lastly, anyone noticed how Toyota and Caterpillar have been seen together lately? When the adds for the new Tundra first came out, Toyota showed their truck sitting in front of a building being built. Anyone notice the big yellow diesel engine sitting in the bed? Yep. It's an in-line-6 Caterpillar. Then they released a commercial of the Tundra backing up to a trailer with a tracked skid-steer sitting on it. Notice the brand? Yep again. Caterpillar. And lastly, during the SEMA show a few months ago, hanging on the back wall in the Toyota booth, was a huge poster of the Caterpillar NASCAR racing team.

    I can't believe all this is just a coincidence, and even Diesel Power magazine picked up on it a few months back.

    Like I said, I love my Cummins/Dodge, but it's hard to dispute the quality and reliability of Toyota products (being made with a many-many American hands, though admittedly, the sales money goes to Japan)), and the name "Caterpillar" is legendary in the diesel world.

    The "big 3" better be doing their homework as far as their diesel trucks are concerned, because if the gods out there do sit an engine that won't die into a truck that won't die, GM, Ford and Dodge are gonna gave their hands full.
     
  4. RJF's Red Cummins

    RJF's Red Cummins TRC Staff Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2005
    Posts:
    2,853
    Media:
    68
    Albums:
    4
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    I live in Modesto California
    You know what though, as far as the Toyota/Cat deal.... I used to be like a lot of other people and get all gitty when hearing the name CAT when it came to diesels. I own three Cat engines, multiple Cummins engines of different years, sizes, and electronic/mechanical. I've become more fond of the Cummins than Cat these days. It just seems that they have a lot of hype for their stuff for no reason, and also their motors seem to be more complicated than Cummins. Many of them use the HEUI setup that is very similar to the International hydraulic powered injectors and I am not a fan of that setup. I've had a couple of different problems with my 3406B and parts for that engine are wild expensive. CAT eats you up in the accessory department, rebuild kits aren't that bad but injectors, pumps, brackets, lines.....geeze CAT, you take a guy to the cleaners....:rolleyes:

    I own a half dozen different Cummins
    3 CATS
    half dozen Detroit Series 60's
    one International
    3 John Deere's
    2 Kabota engine
    2 Deutz
    1 Ford diesel engine (a real Ford engine in a tractor)

    I must say I've gotten great use out of all of them, but the Cummins, Deutz, JD, and Ford engines have probably been the best.

    I wouldn't be suprised at all to see CAT have some engine issues with Toyota. CAT seems to have a problem with that in recent years.... I could see them with a Ford 6.0 kind of deal all over again.
     
  5. DMAXRIG

    DMAXRIG Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2006
    Posts:
    215
    Likes Received:
    0

    Im gonna argue with you on a couple of points, and agree with you on some. First, GM already owns and builds the Duramax. Isuzu and GM designed the Duramax, then GM bought out all the rights. So, they pretty much already have their own in-house diesel. They're supposedly designing a bigger Duramax for the new emissions in 2010.

    Ford, I've heard the same rumors and wouldnt blame them for departing with Navistar. They've had a run of bad luck lately with all the law suits and unreliable engines. But if they are gonna design their own diesel they better get on the ball now.

    Toyota and Cat together.....I dont see it happening. It would cost a fortune for Cat to design a smaller engine for pick ups. And secondly, I dont see Cat willing to put their engine in a foreign truck. I could be totally wrong about this, but I just dont see it happening.
     
  6. RJF's Red Cummins

    RJF's Red Cummins TRC Staff Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2005
    Posts:
    2,853
    Media:
    68
    Albums:
    4
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    I live in Modesto California
    They've already done it. AGCO Allis is basically a foreign brand, and CAT does tons of business with them. Most of CAT tractors are half AGCO.

    Toyota has a good name, that and money is likely the only thing that matters to CAT.
     
  7. DMAXRIG

    DMAXRIG Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2006
    Posts:
    215
    Likes Received:
    0

    Not gonna argue with you there!!!
     
  8. Splash

    Splash Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2007
    Posts:
    16
    Likes Received:
    0
    I have a feeling that if Toyota really wants a CAT diesel for their pickup, they will probably be willing to help pay some if not all of the cost for the development of the engine. Especially if they believe they will get a return on the investment.
     
  9. yellowk20

    yellowk20 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2006
    Posts:
    80
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    LaLuz New Mexico
    Sorry, I got a little off track in my response the Main point I was trying to make is that at least 40% of MY "towing" is very rough dirt road/off road .

    And I like all 3 of my trucks ...... okay the DMAX is the wives but you get the Idea



    As for the Toyota/Caterpillar rotfl rotfl
    No friggin way if Toyota goes diesel it will be a TOYOTA engine they have diesel experiance
    And truth be told I won't buy a Caterpillar diesel unless it's in a Piece of Cat equipment . Parts and service are to expensive and there relability isn't any better than Cummins or Detroit
     
  10. BlowinBlack

    BlowinBlack Member

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2007
    Posts:
    6
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Kingsport, TN
    Well darn, you buncha GM farmboys with your Japanese Diesel....waytogo

    Wonder why you don't see Duramax and Powerstroke in these rigs. Cummins been doin it for years, bow down to the king you bathtub fartin V8's.
     
  11. RJF's Red Cummins

    RJF's Red Cummins TRC Staff Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2005
    Posts:
    2,853
    Media:
    68
    Albums:
    4
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    I live in Modesto California
    Umm, that makes no sense.... :confused: You can buy a PSD in a Ford pickup, and a Dmax in a GM pickup....and plenty of people order them...:confused:


    Last time I checked, International and Izuzu have been making diesels for just as long as Cummins.

    Extremely intelligent response..... thats the kind of stereo type response that makes us Dodge guys sound stupid.:stir:
     
  12. yellowk20

    yellowk20 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2006
    Posts:
    80
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    LaLuz New Mexico
    And Navistar and Izuzu both make Inline 6cylinders as well
     
  13. BlowinBlack

    BlowinBlack Member

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2007
    Posts:
    6
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Kingsport, TN


    Yes I know, I meant semi rigs, oh holy intelligent one.

    How many Peterbilts or KW's have Isuzu or Navistar in them? I mean seriously, enlighten me.
     
  14. Diesel-Dude

    Diesel-Dude Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2007
    Posts:
    71
    Media:
    13
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    north central, Ohio
    One thing I find funny. Back in the day of Case/International Harvester farm tractors and combines, International didn't use it's own engines in their own equipment. In fact, the Cummins 5.9L and 8.3L were common fare in the Case/IH stuff. Now why would International source out a compeditor's engine when the engines they turn out are so great?:rolleyes: Even the die-hard "red" guys at the shop stumble on this question when I ask 'em.:D
     
  15. yellowk20

    yellowk20 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2006
    Posts:
    80
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    LaLuz New Mexico
    Ignorant statement :doah: Just because Pete and KW don't use it it must be Junk???? Izuzu has been building Class 8 trucks overseas with awesome relability for Decades.

    And Navistar has been Building Diesels damn near as long as Cummins ....maybe longer i'm not sure. there good solid reliable engines


    Yes the 6.0 has proved to be huge problem for Ford/Navistar but Cat,Cummins,and Detroit have all built some real Turds in there days does it mean all of them are Junk????
     
  16. yellowk20

    yellowk20 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2006
    Posts:
    80
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    LaLuz New Mexico
    Thats because Case Bought the tractor part of IH . :rolleyes:
     
  17. BlowinBlack

    BlowinBlack Member

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2007
    Posts:
    6
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Kingsport, TN
    I don't take serious statements from people who cannot spell.

    It's Isuzu.
     
  18. yellowk20

    yellowk20 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2006
    Posts:
    80
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    LaLuz New Mexico
    well excuse me Mr. Webster :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
     
  19. yellowk20

    yellowk20 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2006
    Posts:
    80
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    LaLuz New Mexico
    Fixed it for you waytogo
     
  20. BlowinBlack

    BlowinBlack Member

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2007
    Posts:
    6
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Kingsport, TN
    No, I know I was wrong. You gents just pounced on me like I was a crippled kid.
     

Share This Page