IFS rules!

That definantly goes for Ford and GM but Dodge put Michelin LTX A/S tires on 2nd gen trucks and are using a differenet michelin now, but I'm sure it's an E rated tire like the A/S's.

 

There is something about having a big solid axle under the front, it feels more solid to me and not like a mushy Lincoln Town Car. I know both my SFA trucks can take a beating, unlike IFS. I've seen many different IFS front ends fall apart on both stock and modified trucks. My buddies whole spindle broke apart and completely fell off along with the tire and wheel, it was quite the spark show. Granted, he did have a 6" lift and 33" tires but he had it setup correctly with it not all cranked up. I would think the stock IFS should be able to handle a premium short lift kit like a 6" with a small tire like a 33".

My neighbor, which owns a dairy and beats on his trucks, knocked the whole A arm setup out of whack on his stock as a rock '98 K2500. My dad has had pretty good luck with his '98 burb but did find a broken sway bar under the front at one time, I think it was a sway bar.

 

{wow, great thread for me to get acquainted with folk.........and an old thread at that}

I'd have to agree with this statement. I've had GM products all my life. I grew up on a farm and we beat the crap out of the '70-'80s Chev/GMC and they just didn't seem to care what you did to them (2wd and 4wd). I was more into muscle cars back then and didn't care what kind of suspension the trucks had. I noticed NO heavy users (5th wheel tow rigs) of trucks that I know bought '88 and newer Chevs and wondered why. They all started buying Ford or Dodge about '92-93 and still do.

I got into Jeeps about 6 years ago and started learning about solid axles and leaf springs, etc. (I've used up one Cherokee and am building a one ton YJ with 350 TBI, etc) and wondered why there were no IFS Chevs out on the trails. That seems to be another subject and I won't get into that. I've watched Walker Evans 'almost' make his IFS buggy work in UROC competition and it's just not predictable enough in sidehill type of situations. In some cases it works great and in others it just can't keep enough 'gravity' pressure on the tires for them to grip where a solid axle rig (same chassis later in the year) will do the same obstacle (St. George, UT 2003) with ease.


Recently, I've been looking for a new tow rig to replace the '89 Suburban that we have. I've driven no less than 9 2500 IFS Suburbans (some {2 or 3} with the heavier springs) and really don't care for the 'Caprice Wagon' type of ride of the '92-99 Subs. The '00-current are a little better and I honestly don't notice the 'funky' ride in a Dmax (probably spring rate?) and feel like they are the best of the GM, I have driven. My wife obviously factors into this equation, and she wants a F*rd Excursion! :doah: Unfortunately, I believe that's where we are going and voting with our $$$$$.

Why I 'think' I don't like IFS. I'm buying a truck. I've been driving trucks for the past 25 years and accept a truck for what it is. They are not supposed to be Cadillacs (even Dmax with Onstar, toasters, latte makers, heated seats, center consoles, etc. etc.) and I don't know why the modern consumer expects them to be. Until the GM 'Employee discount' promotion, GM was EXTREMELY proud of their trucks. I can quickly haggle a Dodge to $32-33k and can't get a GM under $43Kish and still can't get a stick shift.

Things I absolutely HATE about IFS: The rear suspension in an IFS truck seems far superior in ability to take a load over the 'floaty' feeling I get from the front at speed on the interstate (talking specifically about the '95-'99 Subs I've driven) over the dips and what not (our freeways leave a little to be desired---maybe from the extreme temperature range in Utah?). The solid axle truck just doesn't react to those items (well, you get that friendly 'bounce'). I'd HATE to feel a loaded trailer over those same dips with the IFS. That alone makes me not like the IFS and will shed my brand loyalty and deal with F*rd (whacked pumps of every kind and all). I'd prefer Dodge (no big SUV---b!tches) if I had my choice {why don't they produce the Jeep Rescue concept vehicle?--solid axles, Cummins, 3/4 ton chassis, seating for 8, etc.}.

Honestly, if GM had a solid axle K3500, with a coil setup similar to the Dodge, I'd be brandishing my "GM forever" badge, but I'm voting with my wallet and will be buying a diesel F*rd Excursion (whole other topic on why no Dmax Burb as I'd like to check that out???? {I've heard it has something to do with the tranny tunnel, but whatever......:shrug: )......

 

If I'm supposed to spend $40K on a truck I will focus on whatever I want to. I honestly feel like the ride of a newer Dodge with the SFA is very comparable to the IFS GM trucks. I like the simpler design of the SFA and when the suspension does cycle, the arc the axle travels through doesn't feel as awkward to me as the arc the IFS travels through. That said, I think the unit bearings (on either truck) are copout by the factory. One of those planned obsolescence things to generate $$$$.

Let's take a totally different vehicle as an example. Jeep Grand Cherokee. Go drive a '99-'04 then go drive a new 'improved' version with IFS. I think you'll only see the difference of the arc as I illustrated above. The spring rates are almost the exact same between the two vehicles and would give you a good seat of the pants comparison. I'll take the solid axle version just on 'feel'. I like it's 'feel' better (additionally, as it gets older, the lift is CHEAP and I can use it like I'd like to---which I think you alude to below) and more predictable.

Opinions....well, they're like ...... For a tow rig (especially), I like the predictable handling of the SFA. I guess I'm just used to it or something. I'd love to see GM come up with an option, but I think they've got their corporate head up their @sses and I'll not hold my breath. They did offer a leaf sprung SFA (with the 2WD work trucks C3500HD for a few years--mid '90s) and I still see those buckets around.

For a freeway/highway only tow rig, any of the platforms in question would peform admirably, IMHO. I've spent a bunch of seat time in all of them trying to figure out what to spend my bucks on, but none is a clear winner, depending on what you want. I want a GM with the Dodge front suspension, no 'gay' transfer case selector (just how hard is it to pull a lever ?????) button/dial, a reasonable interior package (carpet, power locks & windows, etc.) and old style wheel bearings. However, my wife wants to keep the 8 passenger capability and that limits us to two trucks (Suburban/Yukon XL vs. Excursion) and we've both decided which way we lean there. Not that the Suburban is 'bad', but even she doesn't like the on-highway feel of the IFS (I'm not sure how she'd quantify that, but that's what she said) and likes the F*rd interior over the GM. If Dodge made a full-size, 8 passenger SUV with a diesel engine option (based on the 2500-3500 platform) we'd both feel like we should buy that.

From my knowledge, it seems the only thing that would wear out more on the IFS could be the idler arms (and that seems to be only on lifted and/or used/abused trucks). The ball joints and unit bearings are common to both designs and are probably here to stay just for the ease of installation at the factory . I know one '99 Dodge owner converting to the older balljoint 60 F*rd knuckles and 'normal' bearings after using up 3 sets of unit bearings in the past 18 months or so (two with a lift and big tires, the latest set with no lift and stock tires )

However, if you look in the oil fields of Wyoming, western Colorado or eastern Utah, the fleets of trucks are almost devoid of IFS (I've also heard that about the mining fleet trucks in Nevada) unless it's a supervisor truck. I've seen how the 'rank and file' workers 'use' their trucks, and frankly am shocked the trucks last as long as they do. Almost all fleet buyers I know or have chatted with, purchase the Dodge or the F*rd and some of them feel the same way I do about not buying GM. I'll see if I can get in touch with a couple of them and get their comments about the IFS and maintenance. They've bought them and retired them early due to increased maintenance/expense.........I'm not sure exactly why.

However, if I'm paying that much for a truck, I'm listening to those guys. Too much for me to lose $$$ on and their job is to save $$$ for the fleet however they can. The answer to that 'might' simply be the higher initial cost of the GM trucks, but I do remember a golf course conversation or two about maintenance on the heavier IFS vs. a solid axle.

 

old thread, i know.

anyways; there's a reason the HUMVEE has IFS in front and back...

 

What is it about HMMWV that makes people drool? They're HEAVY, underpowered, huge and HEAVY. They're great in open terrain like a desert or something following tank tracks or whatever, but put them in a forest..... ICH Did I mention they're heavy and underpowered?


Oh, and independent suspension in the rear would probably be IRS (but I'm from unedumacated Utah, so that may be different elsewhere?)

 

Humvees are desert vehicles....not fashion statements like the Yuppies think.

If I needed to get across a desert at a decent speed, I'd want IFS and IRS too!

But.... I don't race across deserts in my Dodge chasing crazy people with funny beards.

I like my heavy duty front D60 beam axle just fine...

 

You ever Wheeled a Hummer? I and two friends were made fools on hells revenge, By a couple Of wipped assed solid axle jeeps Hummers are JUUUNNK!!!!!!!

If I was A pimp and always drove in good weather I still wouldn't buy one.

 

I've spent a TON of time on and around Hells Revenge. They're not my favorite vehicle by far, but to go fast in the desert, it'd be pretty sweet. However, they're kind of heavy and are wimpily powered with the 6.5 diesel (I'm sure there's ways to make that potentially worth something?). There are VERY few places a HMMWV would have an advantage on my Jeep in/around Moab or in the Utah area for that matter. In the Sahara or other sandy, desert region, the HMMWV will spank my 'Jeep'. I'll keep the 'Jeep' (that strangely uses HMMWV wheels --and a BUNCH of other parts from the General ) in the tighter trails or in the rocks or whatever.

 

As some who owns of each of the Big 3 I will say that GM's do ride the Best period My leaf sprung ford the worse The dodge is not far behind the GM . All my trucks have over size tires and NEED them for the Towing that we do with them. I realize that I'm a Minority in the fact that I use my trucks so hard . But I need a truck that will hold up. ride is secondary to me . My GM's have had more trouble with the frontends then I have ever had out of all my Solid axle trucks combined. CV's ,Idlers,Tre's,balljoints, and 4wd actuators. Have been the culprits of are troubles


I'm SAS'ing my Suburban. and if Cage Offroads kit is not outrageous I will be coil spring SAS'ing the wifes D-max (Which has been the most troublesome of ALL our Ifs trucks)


and unit bearings SUCK . no matter what frontend you have

 

1. I never said i'm drooling over a hummer
2. IRS is basically the same thing as IFS...however, thanks for correcting me in such a nice way.