We're shopping..... The stupid 360 just doesn't cut it any more, so we're looking at GMC's & Dodges. Personally, I like the GMC truck better than the dodge, but I really like the Cummins better. Either way we go, we're going w/ the auto trans. Owners of both - please post why you chose your Cummins/48RE over the Dmax/Allison, and vise versa. Thanks -Mike
I went with GM for several reasons. Dodge does not make a decent "crew cab" was one of the main ones. The GM 4x4 also handles and drives better (IMO) due to the IFS. it also has by far the best auto out there and the nicest interior. The DMax also makes a GREAT all-around power plant with the broad flat torque band of a V8 that is very smooth and easy to get along with. The Cummins will likely out-last the DMax, but either will likely outlast the chassis, so to me, it's a non-issue. The Cummins is also probably the marginally better motor for full-time towing and gets better fuel mileage with a manual if you REALLY know what you're doing and learn to use the engine properly. But even the new CTD 600 does not have the useful rpm range and the broad flat torque curve that makes the DMax such a pleasure for everyday use. Earlier CTDs don't respond very dramatically to simple "chip" upgrades, but both CTD 600 and DMax respond VERY well to the chips. However, the CTD can't handle much of any power increase without toasting the auto, whereas the DMax with Alli can go quite a long ways up (how far depends on who you talk to and how you drive it) without trans upgrades if you don't just rag it to death (i.e. avoid stalled launches). The DMax/Alli combo can make some great power and a fun driver for less than $1000 in upgrades, by far the cheapest bang for the buck if you want to play at the entry to mid range level without spending a lot of coin. These are my views and opinions, some are objective, others are subjective and not everyone agrees. If you want to maximize your return on investment, you need to do some serious research and analyze exactly what points are most important to you. That's exactly what I did and I've NEVER questioned my choice…
Mike I looked at and drove all 3, Dodge, GM, and Ford. Liked the cab and looks of the Ford CC 4x4 the most. Didn't like the tiny wheels on the GM's and the LT 10 way power seats didn't fit me very well. Ended up buying a Dodge QC LB 4x4 because I got the best deal on my trade in plus $4k below employee price for it. I didn't like some of the problems reported on the Ford SD sites with the 6.0 but would have bought a F350 SD CC 4x4 if I could have got a better deal on one. :dunno: opcorn: :stir:
Thanks for the input so far.... I still need to get out and drive the GM. We drove both a 6 spd and 48RE Dodge and both liked the auto more. We're looking for a rig we're going to keep for 10+ years, but not put too many miles on.... <10k/yr, half that towing. We're also not looking towards BOMBing at all. We're looking for an ext cab (don't care for true crew cabs - I actually like the suicide-door style doors on the GM ext cabs) We're looking towards a dually because a slide-in camper, and a horse trailer are in the not too distant future.
My Dodge Quad cab isn't much bigger than the X-cab Chevy gasser it replaced. I like the regular 4 door as you don;t have to open a front door to let someone out of the back seat. YMMV
I agree about the doors, my extended cab will not be around for to much longer, i test drove a 01 2500HD with the D/A combo and i was amazed at how easy it pulled my blazer around, i even hooked it up to my truck after driving it to see the difference and its alot
We went with the Dodge because our local dodge dealership had the only Duallys in the state, not 1 GM dealership had a dually, and the employee pricing didn't apply to '06's
I don't think you can go wrong with any of the big 3's diesel pickups these days. Of course there's the chance of getting a lemon from any of them. waytogo
Mike, I had an '01 Superduty/4x4/auto that I thought was the cats meow. I like my new '05 CTD, both motor and truck, better. I've read alot of posts at various forums regarding the 48RE, and the bottom line seems to be that unless you get a lemon trans, they hold up just fine, are easier to drive and most people are happy with them. I agree with BadDogs points regarding the Chevy -- I almost bought one. But the reports of overheating (and a not-too-bright dealer) scared me off. Good luck, whiever you pick!
Huh? The CTD pulls HARD from idle to shift point......... The V8 seems to take a little longer to get going, but nothing like the F*rd. (learning your rigs powerband will let you drive around any of those issues) I think the CTD is THE engine of choice, bar none. The powerband ROCKS (not that the other two suck, but I like the CTD best). Earlier CTD's don't have chips. (12 valve) You talking the 550? I've not heard of a single auto trans failure from the two Dodge dealers I know since they went to the 600 motor (I think that's the 48RE ?--I'm kinda a stick guy, but my wife would prefer an auto). {frankly, that scares me as that's been out a couple of years now---I'll have to ask again. I asked one 4-6ish months ago and that was his story} I think you should drive all three on the same day 2 or 3 times. They all have different characteristics, but are ALL very capable. For me, it's a Dodge first, GMC next (solid axle swap would be nice) and then the F*rd.
The earlier stock CTDs (12V) had a very peaky torque curve that rose quickly, the fell off rather quickly, particularly compared to the V8s which rose a little less steeply (meaning the CTD gets up there at a lower RPM) but held relatively high numbers over a much broader rpm range, giving a much "flatter" torque curve. The V8s also have a broader over-all rpm range to work with. The 24V flattened things out a bit, but nothing like the V8s. The 600 is better yet, but still falls shy of curve width and total RPM range. What all this means is that the CTD starts pulling earlier (lower rpm) but you really need the gear choices to keep it happy, especially in the older designs (although mods can improve things). Understand that I'm not beating on the CTD at all, and I LOVE that engine. All I'm saying is that it is definitely has it's benefits, but it is not the end-all-be-all that so many CTD fanatics believe and try to convince the world of… As for "chips", I'm talking about the 24Vs of course. And if you have not heard of failed Dodge autos, you've not been talking to any of the guys that "bomb" their trucks. It generally does fairly well as long as the motor is stock (but I personally know of exceptions to that) but bombing brings a quick upgrade to the trans or a tow truck, your choice. Anyway, I totally agree that any of the big 3 diesels will a fine truck, but each has strengths and weaknesses so a buyer has to figure out what is most important to them in order to choose the "best" for their needs. The Ford is a fine truck, assuming that they have the 6.0 issues worked out, and hoping that tranny is as good as they say (but I'll bet it's no match for the Alli). Likewise we can only hope that the latest drive train (including tranny) changes in the Dodge lineup don't cause trouble. And of course we know that GM hasn't changed anything significant for a while except to corner the "ugliest truck made" market with that front cap (personal opinion )…
It seems (from memory, so I'm sure I'm wrong--I don't know anybody with a 12 valve at the moment) that the engine 'hits' about 1400 rpm and pulls pretty good through 2500 or so........isn't that about redline? Anyway that's plenty of time to shift up to the next gear. 'Bombing' brings a whole new element. NO transmission (not even the Allison) is built for that. That's a BUNCH of torque getting put through a trans...... Aren't some of those guys over 1000 lb. ft, putting it through a trans built to handle 600ish? I HAVE to agree with that statement.......(just my personal opinion) The GMC is OK, but the Chev........I'd take one with a GMC front end (but I'd still buy the Dodge for two reasons despite my GM blood---price and solid axle---the crew cab doesn't bother me at all as I've sat in the back on a few trips. I'm 6' and 230 lbs and was pretty comfortable for up to 4 hours at a time. That's about as long as I last without stretching my legs or emptying my bladder, anyway. )
I don't recall exactly where the torque/rpms were, we had a long discussion on it a while back. But "pulls good" is subjective, the dyno graphs show the real story. Over that kind of rpm range (IIRC) you're talking about well over 100 ft/lbs variation from a narrow peak around 1900 or so. Comparing the graphs of the 3 CTD generations, vs the 2 PSD, and then the DMax will show clearly what I'm getting at. I am in no way saying that it is a major problem problem or somehow unusable, just that the V8s are objectively "better" due to the broad and "table top flat" torque curves that hold near max torque from around 1800 to 3.5k+. And I guess "bombing" depends on your definition. Seems most have started using that term for even moderate upgrades in power (like plugging in a chip), which is how I was using it. Probably not a good idea though since many associate "bombing" with huge increases in power. My mistake, that should have been "even moderate increases in power" rather than "bombing". In any case, I'm running over 700 through a stock Alli for a few years with no problems yet. I personally know first hand of guys with both autos AND 4500s in stock CTDs that have been trouble, and these were stock. And a new truck for me would HAVE to be GMC. I could not stand seeing that Chevy clip day after day. Seats and interior in general are a good point too, and totally dependent on the frame of the person who spends the most time in the driver's seat. The Ford is completely bass-ackward for me and feels "wrong" is the only way I can put it, particularly the steering wheel and column position/size, but the seats feel wrong too. I liked the 98 Dodge Ram I had just fine, but the GM definitely fits me much better and more comfy, particularly with the power bolsters and lumbar. Solid axle vs. IFS is a whole different discussion and we have a HUGE thread here on that topic if you are interested.
I think that was my first post........ waytogo (for now, I still tow with an old school, '89 Sub......)
I think what mbryson is getting at is that the Cummins may show a narrow power curve on the dyno but it's basically not felt at all when driving. I pulled my first real hill with it really loaded about two weeks ago and it pulled the best above 2K anyway, but could really feel the power from about 1800 to redline. It may peak on power early on with the dyno under it but I don't feel it drop off. I think most Cummins guys feel the same way I do, the numbers may show one thing but the power band doesn't feel narrow so who cares. I don't doubt the Dmax is a great daily driven engine. I've ridden in numerous Fords with both the 7.3 and 6.0, yest they are quick and make a lot of power higher up but to me thats not usefull. THey seem more like gas engines to me, where the Cummins feels like a other diesels that I'm used to that build big power and don't rev up like a big block. Like I've said about the Dodge autos....if they were so bad as some think than Dodge would be using a different transmission than the current 48RE. Almost all the new Ram Cummins that I see are auto trucks, in the last few days four of our members just bought new trucks, all Ram Cummins and all four people chose the 48RE.
I'll agree that the 48RE has gotten a bad wrap and frankly, from what I have seen first hand, it holds up as well in a stock config as the much respected NV4500. In fact the WORST trans experience I've seen in a Dodge was a NV4500 behind a stock 24V that my neighbor used towing a trailer with paint supplies. The same trailer that he also towed successfully behind his Tacoma when he ditched the Dodge, so it was certainly not stressing the Dodge. But neither of them can handle much increased power without some potential issues, and that's all I was trying to say on that. And the relative merits of the engines have been well beaten by now, so I'll refrain from further comment other than to say that they will all make a fine tow platform (again, assuming the 6.0 problems are corrected).
It was a tough choice since I had a $4000 GM credit and would have liked to stay with GM, but Dodge still won. Maybe if GM had the employee pricing thing going when I was buying…. still the Dmax/Ally combo is rather pricy. All my subjective opinions: Dodge had lower price, better brakes, much better looks, better seat, snow plow prep with the diesel, a more open interior and the CTD should last longer. Dodge lets the driver control everything. I hate automatic lights that you can’t turn off like GM has. The 48re is ok, but it could really use another gear or two and the steering wheel could be further away from the dash. GM had a little more rear seat room and the Ally. The GM IFS did not seem to ride much better than the dodge which was surprising. The GM seat where the bottom drops out and the back stays put was just too strange. Seemed all the GM’s had center consoles, which are too car like, kind of encapsulating the driver, yuck. Kind of got scared off the Dmax because of all the past injector problems. I hope GM gets their act together and hires some designers that aren’t blind. On the other hand Dodge looks to be screwing up the Ram like they did the Dakota, so maybe GM can just wait, LOL.
I've got 1,200 miles on my CTD/NV5600 and will say this; at light to moderate throttle, torque does all the work and the power literally disappears after 2,200 rpm. The torque spread seems to be @ 1,500 to 2,200 rpm. Fairly narrow, but very strong and useful for around town driving, loaded or not. If you put your foot into it -- 1/2 throttle and better -- and horsepower joins the party, especially above 2,200 rpm, and she goes like the proverbial raped ape. The 3,000 rpm redline comes up real quick, and shifting at or just above 2,500 rpm seems to yeild the best results performance-wise. Having owned an '01 PSD/auto, which was just great, I like this engine better. I love the ECU idle feature too -- ease up the clutch in 2nd and off you go -- no throttle needed to start! Also great for backing up. Just my .02, more to come as the miles roll by waytogo
I pull a three horse slantload trailer(9000#dry, 13,500#loaded) very often. The terrian in my part of the country goes from flat to moderately hilly(not mountians). I pull in direct drive on the secondary roads and overdrive on the larger state highways and interstates. Have 149,000 and some change on the clock and have had zero tranny problems. None. Period. I don't hotrod my truck, but I do use it on our farm. My neighbor and friend has a 2002 Dura/Ally, nice strong truck. We haul a lot together and take turns as to whose truck is used. The Ally is the better trans. But I want to say loud and clear that the 47-48re are not the POS that many would have you believe in stock trucks. I drive sanely and service my truck regularly. I would love to have the Allison behind my Cummins, the Duramax was just not for me. So I guess the point of this rambling post is to say that they are both good trucks when used within their design specs so buy what you like the most.
