Diesel Pros & Cons: 6spd vs. Auto

I posted this on another forum a few months ago, but I want your guys' opions here...

I'm looking into 01-02 2500 4x4 Quad Cab Short Boxes with the 24V Cummins.

What are some of the benefts for real world towing of heavier loads (8,000lbs+) when looking at the Auto? What about Cons? Same for the 6 spd?

Here's what I've found so far:

6 Spd Pros: 55ftlbs of Torque from the factory, Durability & reliability, better control of the torque curve, the wife will be less likely to want to drive while loaded (she's a HORRIBLE driver, especially with a trailer)
6 Spd Cons: Tight ratios means more shifting around town, I'm getting lazy as I get older, harder to find used

Auto(47re) Pros: Torque converter slippage puts the engine in Peak torque from 0mph, and converter stall puts the engine in higher rpms from a lower MPH, "Stab & Steer" convenience, an Box will pickup that torque difference and then some, more common thus easier to find a good used one
Auto(47re) Cons: Reliability & durability, less control of torque curve, less exhaust brake options, Boxes adding power/torque further reduce durability, more likelyhood of the wife wanting to drive.

This truck would be my daily driver, and I would tow 8500lbs ~10 times a year, some short trips (20-50miles), some long trips (800miles+). I enjoy driving a manual, but I want what will perform the best for all around use. I guess my biggest concern is I don't want to have to wrestle the clutch to get it moving from a stoplight when I'm scaling in at 14,000+GCVW, and I don't want to lose boost when coming up to an incline and I start to downshift, but at the same time I don't want to have to rebuild transmissions every 50k miles, or skimp on 55ftlbs of factory torque either.

Test driving with the loaded trailer is going to be hard, if not impossible

Thanks in advance for any and all input...

-Mike

 

Biggest disadvantage in my book is that the Dodge tranny is not very durable, you'll end up putting money into it in rebuilds pretty fast. I would definately go with the handshaker, but I prefer manuals. If you're one of those guys that likes to drive "point and shoot" style then go auto, but personally I like to have more control over what my car/truck/van/motorcycle/bicycle/skateboard is doing.

If manuals were so bad for towing then the big boys would have autos too.

 

I can tell you I love the 6 speed in mine. It's a joy to drive, shifts smooth, the ratios are just right, loaded or not. I drive at least 60 miles per day and don't get tired of shifting. Now, if I lived in the city and did the stop and go thing all day, I'd probably get tired of it. It's a quantum leap ahead of the Getrags I had in my last two trucks. Another good thing is you get a Dana 80 rear with the 6 speed.

You aren't going to have ANY trouble getting 14K GCVW moving off the line with a Cummins. When I have all the toys on and pack for a long weekend, I'm pulling about 13K not including the truck. I generally let the clutch out at idle in 1st, and then roll on the power.

I can't tell you how I'd like an auto behind a Cummins, because I have had all manuals. As far as the wife driving, mine CAN, but doesn't have a lot of confidence. When we used to tow with a motorhome that had an auto, she didn't mind pulling the bumper pull trailer as long as we were on the interstate where she didn't have to stop or make turns. She wouldn't attempt it now with the 6 speed and 30 ft. gooseneck.waytogo

 

The 47RE is a fine transmission. If you keep it out of OD when towing and keep the engine stock it will live fine. It's pulling heavy really heavy loads, pulling in OD, and lots of aftermarket power that tears them up. I have 107K on my stock '01 with no problems with the auto. Eveyone I know didn't have problems with their autos under stock conditions either. I will definantly agree that they aren't quite as durable as the Allison in the GM's but under stock power, a driver that keeps it out of OD when towing and in town, and loads not over the factory rating, you shouldn't have a problem getting at least 100K out of the 47RE.

You can actually make a good, lower mileage 47RE very strong with not a lot of money. A good valve body and torque converter and it is strong enough for the average modified engine with a black box and a big heavy load behind it.

I haven't heard of any problems with the NV5600, besides a clutch that isn't any too strong. I remember when I was interested in the NV5600 6 spd because of the price of auto upgrades but after seeing the prices of some aftermarket clutches, for just a few hundred more I could have a VB and TC for the 47RE.

 

The only close friend that I have with a Cummins and an auto had to rebuild his at 45k and again at 100k. It now has 160k and needs another rebuild. Stock engine and he barely ever tows, primarily he drives it to and from work, over 200 miles a day. He maintains his vehicles well too, and he drives fast but is not abusive.

 

He got unlucky and or has another issue going on. For evey guy out there that said he only made it 10 miles on a rebuild there is another guy that says he has 250K on a stock tranny that has never even had the oil checked in it. That pretty much goes for anything in any kind of vehicle.

The E40D's were supposed to be crappy trannies behind the early PS Fords.....my grandpa's '95 has 278K on it with the stock E40D, only one fluid change at 95K. I had a relativly low mileage TH400 blow up in a stock '76 C30. I beat the hell out of my stock Th700R4 and never had a problem with it.

When it comes to stuff like that people are going to have stories from one end of the spectrum to the other.

 

As far as the box itself I haven't heard of any problems with the NV5600 6 spd. From what I know it's the NV4500 that had the 5th gear nut problem. Over at TDR I have read that the clutches with both the 5 and 6 spds are too light for the rest of the drivetrain, with the 6 spd having a slightly better clutch but still not strong enough. Pius, the owner of Bell Turbo ( the awesome USB and WSB turbo builder) told me he can smoke the clutch like it's nothing at 1800RPM's in his '02 HO 6 spd with his Edge Comp box on either level 4 or 5. He says if he gets the RPM's higher than that it will hold otherwise it can spin it right off if he wanted too.

 

So I have to sacrifice my Diesel fuel mileage to tow a load? No thanks, I'll take my manual again, the reason I bought a Diesel was the torque AND the fuel mileage, not one or the other.

100k transmission rebuilds are ok now? My DD has 112k and has never even had a clutch.

I haven't seen Chrysler suceed at ever building even a single automatic transmission. The aftermarket ones with hardened everything maybe, the facotry ones are absolute junk.

A lot of people said the NV 5600 was hard to shift. I drove one, and I think they were whining about nothing, but that's just me I guess.

Dodge isn't using the NV 5600 anymore, but I don't think it has anything to do with durability. It's about $$$$$$$$.

 

Tim,
Have you even owned a 47RE equipped truck? You can't tow with a 4500 in OD either.

Once again, the manual is more for towing, the auto is more for driveability and , for the diesel racing enthusiast, more for acceleration.

 

i dont use 1st and 2nd much when empty. i have a bit more power than in those years, but even with 9k behind the thing i can still easily start in 3rd. around town you can start mine in 3rd, and go from there.

i would never go to a slush box for towing. to risky and costly. not as much control. if you want something for around town go buy a beater thats an auto. then you will be win win and keep some miles off the dodge.
grant

 

Thank you.

Yes Bobby, sadly, I've driven automatics. Never again. They're horrible and shame on me for even considering such CRAP.

 

You can't???

Don't tell my truck that, it does it non stop for 100's of miles every trip...

 

That right there sealed the deal...

There's no way in hell I'm gonna run down the road at 2600+rpms in a diesel that redlines at 3200rpms for hundreds and hundreds of miles. That defeats the purpose of a diesel in itself. I hear of guys towing in OD all the time w/ the 48RE, but if the 47 can't handle it, I won't have it.

6 Speed it is! Thanks for the input, guys!

 

Welcome to the club! Seems like people that want to pick their own gears are a dying breed these days.

 

Yep, when I was tow rig shopping I knew I didn't want an Auto, especially from Dodge... So I looked forever till I found my current truck, no one here has sticks... There weren't even any on the lot in the new models (like I could afford that...).

But no Evan, I still don't want a manual on a trail rig, and I never did get that 2 foot driving thing down you told me about

 

Same here, Manual for the tow rig and Auto for the Trail Rig, So how much did you save buying it a year old?

 

Bought it for 26k imp: . The guy owed 29k on it and I offered him 26 and he took it, he couldn't afford the payments anymore so he was desperate... He bought it new for $44k

 

Awesome, I may opt for a year old rig also, but it will take some time to find one with a manual.

 

Yep, took me about 10 months or so... I went and looked at alot of rigs with autos but couldn't bring myself to do it. One day while eating breakfast at a local resteraunt, I happened to pick up the photo ads and there it was . Had it for 8 months now and loved every minute of it. Really glad I don't have the payment of a new truck either!