I met a guy at the Sneekee Expot this weekend and he said he could get me a 2" leveling kit installed for $400. Is this a good deal or could I do it myself and save some dough? opcorn: I am planning on some 35" BFG AT's. They had a set of Toyo AT's there which had a nice tread design and a thick ass sidewall. Anyone know anything about the Toyo's? I know they are about $25 more a tire than the BFG. I also thought about putting my MTR's on the Dodge from my K5 and buying bigger tires for the K5 instead. Will a 16" wheel fit over the brakes on the Dodge?
I would look for only E rated tires. Seems most leveling kits are in the $200-400 range and are not real hard to install but could be worth having it done if it's cheap enough. I'd just let a shop do it if it was around $100 for labor.
That's what I was thinking. I was looking at the brake calipers today and it is obvious a 16" wheel will not fit. Damn those 17" tires are expensive!!!
I was quoted locally $240 for Revtek leveling kit - installed. I run 16" wheels on my '01.5.................
Get this, I called 4wheelparts to get a price on a leveing kit. They said $120 for the kit and $350 installation!!!!!! F them! Those freakin guys. I laughed at him and asked how come it was so much? He said because you had to remove the entire suspension??? He also said I would need new shocks?? I think I could get away with the stockers......and do the install myself.
There was a conversation thread on here a while back about D vs E tires. I run D rated tires with no problem and no worries, and they have a higher weight rating than my old E tires. Search out that thread for the full discussion. And if your going to actually tow/haul with it, why put on a leveling kit? That's just going to make it squat with a load unless you spend more money and time to add air bags to get the back end up "level" under load. I've never understood this fixation on "leveling kits" for anything that's actually *used* as a truck. To me, it's in the same category as those wings and "body kits" on ricers in that it is purely for looks, and rather than enhance vehicle performance, it actually hurts performance. Oh well, to each their own... Also, be careful on the shocks, particularly if you tow heavy. Assuming you make no changes to the spring pack, the axle movement relative to the frame will remain about the same per unit of load. But after the lower kit is installed, the axle starts out closer to the frame, so the loaded height will also be lower. If you lower it 2" but only had 1.7" of shaft available fully loaded, your going to be bottoming the shock. This will destroy both the shocks AND the shock mounts in short order as proven by any number of off-road vehicles which got lifted and used without the right shock mods or axle limiting devices.
RUN E TIRES, esp if you tow. A Large D tire has more capacity because it has more air, not because it has more plies. a D will be squishy. www.interco.com the SSR and the TRXUS M/T both have 10 ply. I have run Ds, but not with lots of weight, and I don't recommend it. Also I have found that if you use wheels without stock backspacing, it's harder to steer. I can't steer my truck all if I'm aired down on pavement and not rolling. I ran 315s on stock wheels, no lift and they hit the control arms, but didn't cause steering difficulty. They also wore out in the center real fast, due to the narrow (6.5") wheel, but I expected that. Now I have 325/70/16s on some 8" wide wheel that stick out more (haven't actually measured the backspacing), and the tires hit the fenders and not the control arms. I've seen lift kits for the dodge that recommend stock backspacing ,and i think that is why. I suspect my steering pump/box may be dying too, and i need to check my ball joints, so that could be part of the problem.... As far as a leveling kit, I make my own steel 2" (Tuffcountry makes some I think) spacers, used stock height shocks, and beat the heck out of the truck offroading. My busmpstops are squished. Bottoming out, launching the front end off dunes, etc, etc. No problems with the shock/s lift. However, do check shock measurements to travel, some shock are slightly longer/shorter. Comparing a leveling kit to a ricer irks me. Ricers look stupid, and they pay lots of money to look that way and drag ther junk on the ground. A truck low in the front looks stupid. I bought my truck cuz I wanted a 4x4, and I want it to look like one, not like a truck that can't hold up the weight of it's own engine. A leveling kit helps with weight distibution, breakover angle (especially if your have a long wheelbase), and brake dive, and I can't think of any way it would hurt. A 3/4 ton doesn't squat much, unless you put a big trailer on it. I've had my bed full of concrete and it didn't look too saggy. Now, I have to say that a half ton with a nose-high lift and weight in the back looks and is ridiculous. You can't prerun and tow. In short, if you want to offroad it, I reccoment 10 plies with an 8" (9" if you can find it) wide wheel with stock backspacing and a leveling kit. Install isn't too hard, you will probably need a spring compressor (borrow one from Autozone). I have a shop with a lift and air tools, etc. tho, so take that into consideration when i say it's not too hard. HAVE FUN!
I've had no "squish" problems with my "D" tires, but your right about the reduced number of plies. Still, if the rating is there, and I notice no "squish", why be concerned with the letter rating? Just like in the other thread, I'm very curious and would love to see some hard data on the matter. And if the reference to ricers "irks" you, sorry... But you continued on to do a fair job of making my point talking primarily about the looks while discounting any potential negative effects for a tow/haul focused truck. The only difference I see is between what you and they think look stupid. I would hazard to say some of them think a lifted truck with big tires looks stupid too, level or not. <shrug> To each their own, we all have our own opinions and goals… Now, if I were just going to daily drive or wheel a truck and not load it up, sure, leveling would be on my list of things to do. I'll readily agree on some of the benefits you list for off-roading and such. But not for something I tow and haul with, which is my ONLY reason for owning this truck. I've had more than one occasion where my stock "nose low" HD was riding pretty level with the load. If it started level, then I would have been "pre running". If I did find the stock stance bothersome (and I don't) then I would certainly be looking into air bags to keep it from going tail low (much worse IMO) from a load. On the back spacing, I think you'll be more interested in matching scrub radius that back spacing. It's primarily the scrub radius that makes turning at slow speed troublesome. So going to a wider wheel with stock back spacing will increase the scrub radius, though not as much as going wider WITH less back spacing.
On the D vs E thing, less plies means the carcass is going to flex more as the wheel spins, and the flexing produces heat, which causes the tires to fail. Remeber the big stink about the tires on the Ford Exploders failing? It's cuz they ran the recommended pressures down to make up for the poor-riding suspension. I've actually run Ds on my truck since I got it, and haven't had problems, but like I said, I don't run it loaded. I have customers that are farmers running crewcab Fords, pulling/hauling heavy stuff all the time, and they can't keep D tires under them. One guy runs by BFG racing tires and swears by them, but they are $$$. Some big truck doo look dumb, if they're all chromed out just for looks. In my opinion, most body kits, wings, look silly. The aesthetics don't match the cars, looks like they can't decide if it's a car, or something off Star Wars. But a truck built right looks capable, and that looks good. I understand you not wanting to level your tow rig, but my response was more for stallion, who started the thread, and he seemed interested. Never heard the term scub radius before, but the way I understand it, a wider tires obviously has more traction, and so resists turning more, and a wheel with less backspacing puts the tires farther from the pivot point (balljoints, knuckle), which means the steering has to swing/move the tire forward and back instead of just twisting it....right?
Intuitively, I agree with you and felt the same way before. But, that *is* part of the weight rating system, how much weight can they run without damage, and that rating is HIGHER than the "E" in the smaller stock tire. Everything I have found indicates that at proper pressure (which the Ford tires were not) and not exceeding the weight, then there should be no impact on tires. Not saying your wrong, just that I'm not sure your right since it directly contradicts the tire ratings and sales propaganda (which is normally suspect of course, but this is true even comparing their own tires between E and D). Please take a look at this old thread on tire ratings. I would love to see more discussion on the topic and maybe you or some of the other newer members can offer enough info to make me confident one way or the other since I'm still not completely convinced either way... I think we have likely the same taste in trucks for the most part. It's just that I see so many "tow rigs" that get leveled, and then have to make more changes like air-bags to haul the load they are meant for, I just can't resist raising a cautionary voice to point out the potential problem. What anyone chooses is up to them, I just want them to be able to make an informed decision rather than a somewhat emotional one based only on aesthetics. I'm not willing to screw with the front suspension geometry to lift the nose, so that would mean lowering the tail and loosing what little clearance I have. I have been considering air bags and removing the over load, so it might go down just a little in the back. But "leveling" just for looks is not a viable option in my book, particularly with the impact on the GM IFS when raising the nose. "Scrub radius" is the radius of the arc described by the tire as it turns with the truck remaining stationary. Usually represented as an arc centered on the tread width. So, all other things remaining the same, you can see that the scrub radius would be larger with less back spacing. This radius represents leverage against the steering components, so the ultimate goal for reducing steering resistance (other than through mechanical aid like hydro assist) is to keep that radius as small as possible. Note that due to spindle axis inclination (top joint/pivot is inboard of the lower pivot) the center of that arc is getting further outboard as the tire radius increases. With a stock tire size and rim, the radius is usually very small since the axis intersects the ground at or near the center of the contact patch. In order to keep a similar feel in the steering, particularly at low speeds, you want to find and match the factory scrub radius as close as possible.
Yah, they do rate it for that weight. I guess what it comes down to for me it, the D is fine for most use since they rate it that high, but if you are going to push the limits (big loads, high speeds, hot roads, heavy cornering, incorrect wheel size, low air pressure) I know from the guys around here that Ds don't hold up. That may be as close to settled as the issue gets. I went and looked up scrub radius, (found a lot of cool suspension/steering info) and it's like you and I said, only I'd never heard the term before, I just figured it out on my own and was describing it in layman's terms.
I am having problems finding a 33" or 35" BFG or any AT tire on a 17" wheel with an E rating. I would love to get a set of BFG AT's without changing wheels out. What would you guys suggest?
'Fraid I'm useless. Never done anythign with 17"....I knew those would be a problem when they came out....good luck.
you do not need longer shocks. I believe revtek says that right on there website. $350 is pretty steep considering we don't charge that much for a whole lift kit. You do have to remove a considerable amount of the suspension however. Sway bar links, shocks, drag link, trac bar, uppder link's (bitch on 3rd gen cummins because of the frame link bolt hitting the exhaust (we usually cut the head of the bolt and reinstall 9/16th which is same as 14mm from the outside in) etc. Mike
uh....i made and installed my own spacers on my truck...take the shock towers off and borrow spring compressor from autozone (2 are nice) and then you don't have to tear everything apart to get the spacers in. waytogo
pretty simple and commonsense. when i took the spacers out so my pregnant wife could get in in out of the truck, i just hooked the crane to the bottom of the spring (CAREFULLY) and boing! pulled 'em out. (i don't recommend you try this at home, of course)
