I think I'm finally read to try propane injection on my 05 Dodge 2500 (5.9L Cummins). I already have a Triple Dog Downloader installed with an Outlook Monitor. I've only found two companies that do propane injeciton: Bully Dog and ATS. I would guess that there would be no issues in the installation of a bully dog systems. Does anyone know if the ATS system will work with the outlook monitor I've already installed. IOW, will I have problems making the connections? Will have I have to choice which system to connect to something? Also, does propane really save the gas like eveyrone says it does. My main goal is fuel economy (with only occasional HP spikes!)
Propane is a waste of time. With your downloader you can overfuel your motor already. Propane without O2 won't burn. You need more air.
Re: Propane Well, I already have a brute force air intake installed as well as a free flow muffler. I suppose I could spring for a new intake manifold and intercooler. But I'm not sure that would get me the fuel economy that I desire. I noticed that putting the new air intake (by itself--my first mod) did little to improve either power--a slightly noticeable increase, but that's all--and nothing for fuel economy as advertised. I put on the downloader and again, not a noticeable increase in fuel economy. I then put on the free flow muffler and got the power gains with some increase fuel economy. I have to admit the mod that gave me the most dramatic increase in mpg was the tonneau cover. That gave me over a mile per even in town. As to propane being a waste of time, I appreciate your advise. I have no first had knowledge of it myself. And I've noticed that all the claims in the magazines don't always work as expected in the real world. Still, I thought the purpose of propane was to act like a catalyst so that more of the fuel injected would be burned--up from 70% to close to 100%. Are you saying that this doesn't work in the real world with a downloader because too much fuel is being injected to be burnt anyway? Thanks for your help.
wanted to jump in here.. can't speak to the downloader & how it works, but propane isn't a catalyst..it's an accelerant, similar in action to nitrous in gasoline.. all they really do is burn the available fuel faster. Propane won't consume "more" of a given fuel charge, simply because ( propane or not ) you will still run out of air ( in the combustion chamber ) before you consume all of the fuel. Oxygenates like ethanol, MTBE, etc also only work in this given time period..they aren't catalysts either. A true catalyst will actually retard peak heat release, which is the term for "when you run out of air in the combustion chamber"..in other words, a catalyst will delay the point at which you run out of air so fuel is consumed for a few more milliseconds, giving you more fuel consumed as work, and less out the tailpipe. results are less emissions, more power, and better fuel mileage.. if you are interested in a true catalyst, scope out my vendor thread. sorry for the hijack imp:
Hey, I tried propane for a while on a 2001 duramax for fuel economy and didn't see any noticable gains. It will burn cleaner so its better for your engine, and you will get a noticable power increase. You need to use lots of propane to get more mileage and then you would need a huge tank in the bed of your truck for the propane. Check out this site http://www.delucafuelproducts.com/. lots of info on propane. Good luck, Bill
Regarding the propane, of which I have considered, but not made a decision yet, If it only turns out to be a better burning fuel, Is it any cheaper that #2, Does a truck have to be started on #2 and then switched?
Just watch out how you jet it and you should be good to go, as for me I would try to get more economy by using a programer.
I just ordered up a MSD / Superchips #4870 Digital Propane injection system for my 2005 Dodge Cummins. Found a really good price on it for $681.00. Now I need to find a reasonable priced propane tank. Found a few deals on the bully dog tanks, but not much information on installation. They list a 10" x 60" tank as 15 Gallons (not sure what that is in pounds?) Found some priced below $680.00. I am looking on this web page for propane tank ideas, and if I should just mount it in the bed, or see if it can be mounted under the bed? Right now in-the-bed, seens cheaper and easier because the remote fill kit is almost as expensive as the tank! FWIW, the MSD/Superchips digital injection setup was shown on Trucks TV several years ago and they claimed a pretty good jump in fuel mialage. This system can be re-programmed (and monitored) with a lap-top computer, so it can be set up for mialage or power.
I have been having a hard time finding good information on this setup, so I guess I get to be the guinea pig on this one. I did a few calculations and currently estimate my fuel cost per mile is about $0.20/mile (assuming 3.50 gal fuel and 17.5 MPG average?) I am hoping the propane kit will reduce the overall fuel cost (Diesel and Propane) to around $0.17 per mile so I can recoup the cost of the kit and tank in about 50,000 miles. Any one have good numbers on how much mialage increases with propane per amount of propane used? I think propane is around $1.00 or so cheaper per gallon than Diesel? I need to talk to the local propane dealer and get some more information.
Update 28 Feb 2008: Used some "Internet" shopping I found some good prices (prices include shipping): PM me if you want the vendor information. MSD/Superchips #4870 Digital propane Injection for 2003-2008 Dodge cummins trucks -- $681.00. Bulley Dog #20152 10"x60" 15-Gallon Propane Tank -- $611.38 So far my costs are $1,292.38 I will also need parts to install the tank, propane hose and fittings to connect the tank to the DPI?, and some radiator fluid since the heater hoses need to be re-routed through the DPI regulator.
hey i know it might sound dumb but how has the propane for your truck turn out does it actually increase your mpg?? i have a 2007.5 dodge 3500 cummins and i was thinking of doing it to my truck! just wanted to know before i bought everything!
It helps a bit, but not seeing the big gains the magazines talk about. Alot depends on how much you pay for the propane. The bigger the price difference between propane and diesel you save more. The problem is the initial cost of the system and good sized propane tank costs around $1,500+, and you may save $0.01 to $0.02 per mile (considering combined fuel cost to mialage.) So if you get 20 MPG it would be like saving about $0.20 to $0.40 per gallon off the diesel price, but the break even point ($1500 / 0.01 = 150,000 miles, or divided by 0.02 = 75,000 miles) is probbably around 100,000 miles. On the other hand it does make more power, spools a bit better, and actually reduces the exhaust drone noise.
so i guess my real question would be was there any negative side effect of it and do u think its worth investing into? does it run propane like a water methanol kit or more like push button nox2??
I/m using the superchips Digital Propane Injection that you can "program" with a laptop computer. I wish it had better software, because about all you can really "program" is the pressure the injection starts at, and the percentage of total capacity (it uses a pulse-width modulated regulator.) Originally I did have a problem, the computer taps into the wiring harness to sense engine RPM and once in a while it would stuble and throw a code. I added a resistor in-line with the wire going to the computer and it works fine now. I think it was a 470-Ohm Resistor. When setting the injection to 100% it is supposed to add 75 HP, but it will use alot of propane, making your fuel costs higher. I seem to be getting my best fuel savings at levels around 40-50%. I was also warned that the propane can create higher cylinder pressures, so I added ARP head studs which will add even more to the cost if you decide to use them. Someday I hope to install twins, so they were worth it to me. I think you may be ok without the head studs if you don't use additional power adders, or just used a moderate amount of propane, not the really high settings. Ine possable down-side is the propane tank itself. A decent sized tank takes up a bit of room in the bed of the truck. I'm using a 15-gallon tank and I wish I had bought a larger tank. At the 40% 3-psi setting I have to fill the propane tank once for about every two Diesel fillups. After I already bought my Manchester/Bullydog propane tank, I found a place called sleggers that makes some nice (large) propane tanks. They have larger bed mount tanks, and even a multi tank setup that fits into the area of the spare tire. Anyhow, it works by injection gaseous (low pressure) propane into the air entering the turbo. The regulator is heated by putting it the heater loop. If you goto Superchips ot MSD they have an on-line installation manual that shows what is involved.
Propane Install pics and instructions I actually did the install. You can find a complete write up at http://www.gltdr.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=8&hilit= Don't know if I save any actual money. I turn it off on the freeway because the propane runs all the time. It comes on at 4psi. Which means it helps in town during acceleration, but shuts off when cruising.
Some of mt best fuel economy comes from running the propane on the highway, but that is one of the reasons I have the system turned down to 40% so I don't use too much.
hey do you by chance have the web site for sleggers?? i cant find them on- line! whats the going rate for head studs??
Sleegers: http://www.sleegers.on.ca/div_st/st_main.shtml Head Studs $439: http://headbolts.com/dodge-cummins-5.9-diesel.html?gclid=CLf-kJTb75ECFQ2QggodqFj5vw Get extra ARP lube too. A good Propane Catalog for all types of stuff: http://www.nee.ca/gas/catalogue/index.html if all you see is "terms and conditions", click it, then the main catalog page should ve viewable. A 6" long tap for taping headbolt holes for the studs with the head on the engine: http://metalworking.mscdirect.com/CGI/NNSRIT?PMPXNO=2303668 Found a Place that has the Superchips DPI for $708: http://www.sportcompactonly.com/Superchips/performance-parts_b-338.htm alot of the big name diesel vendors will price match or beat the price if you ask them. Hear is another place, $697!: http://test04.3rdstreet.com/display_part/1466.php seems like every place else wants $814.99 for the Superchips 4870 DPI kit? MSD and Superchips have changed there web sites and I can not find the DPI Information that used to be on there? I hope they are not dropping the DPI products?
I have a propane injection on my truck but it is not electronicly injected like all the other man. mine is mechanicly injected which works off of boost pressure. I don't have to worry about a laptop to configure my settings and as for milage I'm getting about 26 mpg on the hwy. and when I tow our trailer (10,000 lbs dry weight) about 16 mpg. and If I ever purchase a different one I' ll just install in the new truck not like these other systems that are designed for that truck only.
After seeing how they work, a mechanically regulator and boost switch would probbly work fine the way I am using my propane injection. Anyhow, now that Diesel Fuel prices droped to $2.20/gallon the propane has no overall fuel cost savinga as the propane prices went upto about $2.20/gallon
