Questions about Banks?

Discussion in 'Dodge 3rd Gen Cummins 5.9 (24v)' started by BMT688, Jan 24, 2006.

  1. BMT688

    BMT688 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2006
    Posts:
    6
    Likes Received:
    0
    I am new to the game with my 2004 CTD(non 600), and am interested in modifying it for towing and performance. My wife uses it to tow a horse trailer so it needs to remain dependable and reliable, but I want something to play with. After reading and researching all I could, I am leaning toward the Banks Six-Gun bundle or possibly stepping right in to the Big Hoss bundle. How far can I go before I need to worry about the stock converter? Price is not as important as dependability and reliability. Thanks for the time, the site is great.
     
  2. RJF's Red Cummins

    RJF's Red Cummins TRC Staff Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2005
    Posts:
    2,853
    Media:
    68
    Albums:
    4
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    I live in Modesto California
    First off, I think Banks is nearly junk. I am not a fan of their products. They remind me of K&N, "advertise like crazy and put our junk on tons of vehicles that are in the magazine and TV spotlight, that way when people think air filters, (diesel performance in this case) they'll think us."

    Unfortunately, there isn't hardly anything you can do that actually makes a difference that won't stress the transmission. Stock for stock Dodge doesn't build a trans like the Allison or even the new Ford Torqueshift that is able to be abused with a moderate chip.

    What I would do is check out Edge's Juice/Attitude combo. You can read all about it on there website and if you have any questions you can call them or ask us. Edge is a good product that makes about the best power out there for a CTD and has good customer service to back their products up.

    If you really want to make some decent power and don't want to worry about trans problems than I would go with the Juice setup and have an aftermarket converter and valve body installed in the transmission if it is still a low mileage truck. If it's high mileage than I would just opt for a fresh rebuild on top of the better converter and VB.

    Those two items make a world of a difference, I just had my trans completely gone through and had internal clutch mods done and used a much better aftermarket converter that not only handles more peak power but gets more of it to the ground more efficiently and causes less heat doing it. Combined with a custom tuned valve body for more flow and better shift points. I love my new trans.

    With the Dodge auto trucks the trans upgrades are kind of key for not only reliability but getting that power to the ground. Running a decent amount of power through a stock trans will put it on borrowed time.
     
  3. PermanentMarker

    PermanentMarker TRC Staff Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2005
    Posts:
    325
    Media:
    11
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Ceres, Ca
    I dunno, I like my SixGun, but it's on a Duramax. I think Gale Banks might have peed in RJF's Cheerios. :D
     
  4. RJF's Red Cummins

    RJF's Red Cummins TRC Staff Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2005
    Posts:
    2,853
    Media:
    68
    Albums:
    4
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    I live in Modesto California
    Banks can easily be outdone by most other brands like Edge, TST, and even Bully dog. I think they ask too much for their product and I've heard from numerous sources that the Sixgun adjustable tuner isn't near as aggressive as the Edge and TST boxes.

    I have also heard from a Banks dealer that their hardparts like the exhaust brake intercooler, and exhaust systems are actually pretty decent but their electronics are not up to par.

    I just find them to be silly. Build a Cummins Dakota, use a ton of parts they don't sell to actually make it fast, break a record, and advertise the crap outa' it to sell inferior tuners or over priced Big Hoss bundles.

    An Edge Comp box, a 12cm turbo off of an H.O. truck, a 4" exhaust, and a couple guages all priced individually are cheaper than the Big Hoss bundle and will make more power with better adjustability.

    Gale banks has never done anything to me, I just don't like crappy products.:D
     
  5. DWitcher

    DWitcher Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2005
    Posts:
    395
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Bakersfield CA.
    Well of corse a Duramax guy likes his Banks kit. Heck you don't even need to know anything about diesels to know the word "Duramax" or "Banks" he, he, he. Just go out and buy it because it's COOOOOOOL. Pshhh.
     
  6. nevrenufhp

    nevrenufhp Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2006
    Posts:
    123
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Modesto, CA
    rotfl that's cold!rotfl :stir:
     
  7. BadDog

    BadDog TRC Staff Staff Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2005
    Posts:
    845
    Media:
    2
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Phoenix
    I'm tending toward Bobby's view on this one, but not quite so extreme.

    IMO Banks is pretty much always the last in line with performance per dollar, with the exception of the full-on snake-oil products (Anyone got a magnet on their fuel line or "tornado" in the intake?). Some feel/claim that when you buy Banks, you are paying for "quality", like Snapon or whatever. Others claim that your paying for research to get reliable power that will work for you day in and day out without worries of putting you on the ragged edge (so you have to religiously monitor EGTs and such).

    My opinion is that the biggest part is that you're simply paying extra for the name recognition (hey, look at me, I've got a Banks!) and all that high dollar advertising that bought the name recognition. And maybe they don't put you on the "ragged edge" and chance damaging your motor or turbo, but the other products that cost less can be dialed back to power levels matching Banks and remain just as safe. Then there is the other upgrade items that demand a price premium from Banks, but if you compare apples with apples, other kits with the same/similar upgrades will cost considerably less, thought they may not come in a box on one order. So in that case I guess your paying for the Banks parts matching and saving your effort in educating yourself to pick the parts that work together.

    I guess it comes down to what you want, how much research you want to do on your own, and how much you trust yourself to apply the time and effort to learn enough to make a good decision. Me, it never crossed my mind to use Banks on my DMax…
     
  8. RJF's Red Cummins

    RJF's Red Cummins TRC Staff Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2005
    Posts:
    2,853
    Media:
    68
    Albums:
    4
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    I live in Modesto California
    Sorry, my post may have been a little harsh on Banks. Yesterday they were annoying me, I went through the latest "Diesel Power" issue yesterday and every show truck in the magazine has a Big Hoss Bundle, lame, but not a big deal. What annoyed me was that it was obvious most were either getting their products for free, over even getting paid to use their stuff, because Banks knew they were going in the magazine. In the articles on the trucks they seem to really try to "butter up" how good their stuff is.....whatever...:rolleyes:
     
  9. PermanentMarker

    PermanentMarker TRC Staff Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2005
    Posts:
    325
    Media:
    11
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Ceres, Ca
    Actually, I was going to get an Edge Juice with Attitude, but I found my Banks kit gently used for half the price, seemed like a no-brainer.

    I drove all the trucks before I bought my Chevy. If Dodge had a backseat that someone with legs could actually sit in, I might be driving one. I wasn't prepared to amputate my kids' legs in order to get the Dodge. Call me crazy.

    I'm hoping your post was sarcastic - hard to tell online. if so, waytogo. If not, kiss my shiny white butt and go get yourself a donkey cart - it's older than your 12v, so it must be better.

    No if you'll excuse me, I need to go shop for 20 inch wheels, lift my truck 6 inches without increasing tire size, remove the hitch since I don't use it, and do something to make it smoke more, since smoke is cool. Oh, and get a great big "Fox" sticker for the back window, since that makes me much cooler as well.

    Marc
     
  10. BMT688

    BMT688 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2006
    Posts:
    6
    Likes Received:
    0
    Okay, then put a parts list together for me.

    Since everyone seems to have a different opinion, help me build a parts list(exhaust,tuner). I don't need the GPS or back up camera offered by the Edge A2.
     
  11. RJF's Red Cummins

    RJF's Red Cummins TRC Staff Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2005
    Posts:
    2,853
    Media:
    68
    Albums:
    4
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    I live in Modesto California
  12. DPDIESEL

    DPDIESEL Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2005
    Posts:
    74
    Media:
    1
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Idaho
    For a moderate power gain I would use a van Aaken C3.1 box, delete the muffler, a AFE air intake, and analog gauges. For a little more power than that the Juice with Attitude or the Bullydog downloader with the outlook monitor works well. If you are wanting extreme power go with the TST. I think the best option for you though is:
    1. van Aaken C3.1
    2. Delete the muffler
    3. AFE intake
    4. pyro, fuel pressure and either a boost or trans temp gauge

    We have all these on our site: www.dominatordiesel.com
     
  13. Tankeryanker

    Tankeryanker Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2005
    Posts:
    15
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Oregon
    Before I knew better I bought into all that advertising that Banks puts out & bought the big power pack for my 01 that I had. Spent alot of $$$ for system that put my hp dynoed at 332hp from a stock hp 235 to the flywheel. The system never gave me any problems in 4yrs I had that truck. I did however have to upgrade my tranny to a DTT tranny do to T/Q slipping while pulling my 5vr. With what I know now I would never buy Banks again. You can get a whole lot more bang for your buck elsewhere.
    After I get some miles racked up on my 05 it will be supporting a Smarty programer when Marco gets them going for the 3rd gens.
     
  14. BMT688

    BMT688 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2006
    Posts:
    6
    Likes Received:
    0
    I like the idea of 'growing into' the TST box, but will the stock charge air cooler and intake elbow be too much of a restriction as the power increases? A new converter and valve body will be next on the list for sure. Thanks again for all the help.
     
  15. RJF's Red Cummins

    RJF's Red Cummins TRC Staff Moderator

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2005
    Posts:
    2,853
    Media:
    68
    Albums:
    4
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    I live in Modesto California
    Thats another thing Banks tries to heavily say, you NEED our intercooler and look at us for our great little air elbow.

    While both these products are infact very nice ( like I said, I have heard bank's actuall hard parts are decent products) they are not neccessarely needed. The only time I really here about REAL diesel performance guys complaining about those two items is with a ton of boost trying to make a lot of power.

    I may be completely off my rocker, but I have gathered that under 400HP those two items really aren't that important to add on. This is on a 2nd gen like mine, I think the 3rd gens have an even better intercooler and can probably handle just a few more ponies.
     
  16. DWitcher

    DWitcher Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2005
    Posts:
    395
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Bakersfield CA.
    waytogo Sarcasm. Your right it is kinda hard to tell online. What I'm getting at is there are alot of people that praise Banks just for the name while not knowing what they are talking about just because the saw some truck lifted 12" on 20's with 9 DVD players and Banks stickers all over it in some stupid "D.P." magazine. There's alot more out there.
     
  17. PermanentMarker

    PermanentMarker TRC Staff Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2005
    Posts:
    325
    Media:
    11
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Ceres, Ca
    Cool then, right on. I can do sarcasm! I do agree with the comments about hype, I went with Banks because I got a good deal. I have, however, been very happy with the performance of my Duramax Six-Gun.:dunno:

    Marc
     
  18. nevrenufhp

    nevrenufhp Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2006
    Posts:
    123
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Modesto, CA
    If the D'max is so tufff, I'll challenge you to race my Geo Metro!rotfl :stir: Sorry, more sarcasm
     

Share This Page