Cummins 24V seem to do good but The LB7 Dmax is also a good one The LLY Dmax has been getting better I would be scared to bomb a 6.0 Ford. :stir:
I agree with Brandon, but will add a bit. For entry to intermediate "bombing", GM DMax is the cheapest reliable power for the dollar. Up to around 500 hp and 1000 ft/lbs you can get for the cost of a chip, torque converter, shift kit, and muffler upgrade. Beyond that takes more work like engine studs, drugs (sometimes N20 and LP combined in large doses), stacked chips (getting dangerous), some new turbos coming out, people playing with elevated line pressures and "custom" injectors and stuff, and definitely full boat tranny upgrades from ATS or Suncoast. Some of these are just now approaching the 800-1000 hp, and not apparently not reliably. That is my understanding, but I have not been actively researching for over a year, so I'm sure others have more current and accurate info. Intermediate to "oh DEAR GOD!" Cummins wins period. IMO this is due to heavy and mature aftermarket support in the form of Dual Turbos, injector and pump choices, head mods (and even complete heads) and a brutally strong lower end. However, to match what the DMax can put down with a chip, the Cummins will need high boost pressures and require head work in the form of o-ringed heads and the like along with injectors and pump upgrades. The cost of entry is a higher for all but relatively modest gains, but you move almost immediately to intermediate level bombing and the sky is the limit. Simply put, if you want the absolute limits of diesel power in a bombed LD truck, it's a Cummins, but it's gonna cost ya. Older 7.3 PS is sorta in the middle. Takes more than a DMax in mods and money to get decent power, but moves into the intermediate range fairly quickly, but lacks the "OH DEAR GOD" limits of the Cummins for all but a few hardy souls on drugs and highly modified. That's my view on the subject.
CTD is currently the best. D-Max is catching up fast. 7.3 PSD is OK. 6.0L PSD is at the limits of reliable power in stock trim.
The 6.0 good motor internally, its just ford cant program a computer worth a damn, and the aftermarket isnt doing much better. The T366E (international # for the powerstroke) has been a solid motor so far for them, because they know the difference between a computer and their sisters titty, unlike ford. I think BadDog is right on, but im going to add one more thing to help stir the pot: The twins for the D-max have been spottedimp:
The way I see it.... For simple power the Dmax is the choice, it can make a lot of power with just a chip compared to everything else. The cummins isn't far behind at all though. For all out monster power, the cummins is the King of the Hill no questions asked, currently. The Ford 6.0 doesn't have hardly any aftermarket support yet. I have no idea what that critter is capable of.
I've seen 'em too. Clint's prototypes and another guy who is being cagy about it for now. Man, it's a tight fight though. Should be interesting and apparently getting some good stuff with nothing more than head studs. Funny how those "weak" aluminum heads can handle higher boost without mods than the Cummins. To match, the Cummins needs o-ring/firer-rings. :stir:
I've heard that from you what...about twent times? Anyone that knows anything about todays diesels should know that the Dmax aluminum heads are no problem at all. Yes, I relize they can handle more boost than the cummins, but after we o-ring look out because your bottom end will go first. :stir: opcorn:
I've yet to see a DMax bottom end let go except in the freaked out over-drugged ragged edge trucks, and the guys running them (like Steve(?) at TST) readily admit it's not the DMax bottom end, it's the "fuel" control getting outside reasonable parameters, primarily the injection event timing causing the equivalent of detonation (at least as I understand it). And although you've seen it several times and understand, I do love to bring up the aluminum heads because there are Cummins fanatics (and International) to this day that will site the heads as a DMax weak point/con. And with the "Cummins is brutally strong" that you always hear, I find it mildly humorous how the heads can't take the boost that the aluminum heads that they used to ridicule (and some still do). And what make it really funny is that I periodically find Cummins fanatics (or Ford) who don't know anything but the rabid brand loyal site of choice and fully believe the crap spewed on said sites (and GM is no different, though it seems to be somewhat less extreme, but maybe that's my bias), and they are OH SO HAPPY to jump right on that with both feet. Like catching fish in a barrel. rotfl
Since IMO, severe bombing is only useful for truck pulls, it doesn't personally matter to me what the Duramax is capable of. The front axle isn't going to take that stuff for long, which kinda puts it out of the mix.:doah:
Tim, come on, lighten up on the axle. I think guys doing frequent stalled 4WD launches with fully bombed DMax drag trucks most every race-day for years have never (to my knowledge) had to upgrade a *single* component other than the tie rods (which flex and bend into a "U" when going below 13 seconds). So tell us again, how does the 4WD front axle eliminate the DMax, particularly since you can also bomb a 2WD? And if your talking about "pulls", there are bombed DMaxes out there too and they have been closing on the Cummins for some time, even taking a few trophies, thought they are not a serious contender yet. Don't believe me? To some searches on Diesel Page and Deisel Place for "mtomac" and others who do fairly well with the same truck as daily driver, towing a support trailer, drag racing, AND truck pulls...
When the Duramax first came out we used to have a kid in town that came to pull back to back with his. 3,000 miles and he had gone through three sets of tie rod ends. The dealer told him not to come back there to have his truck fixed again, as they would not cover it. No way in hell I'd even hitch the sled to one of those rigs. They're worth too much money to destroy.
Tim have you been paying attention in class. Russ has said many times here that the TIE RODS ARE WEAK and need replacing if using the truck hard. The DMAX is a fine truck despite what you belive and try to pass as gospel. We are plumb full of BS here so lets move along.
I vote all new trucks... Seeing as most new trucks regardless of model are super easy to BOMB... Heck, 2 chips and big turbo and I'm all over 500hp now... No injectors, no cam, no drugs - all plug and play, gotta love it!! But there are some times I wish I had a 2nd gen to pop a set of mach7's in with a b1/b2 combo and a MAD ECM, and there ya go... So many trucks, so little time imp:
For the best bang for your buck, and all out longetivity in the higher HP levels, the ol 12V Cummins is still the undisputed king in my book.
My vote a 24v cummins. I can build and pull for cheaper and more reliable then a stroker or a d-max just my $.02, jr
That 6.0 was never meant or designed to have that much hp. According to international, it can handle that much hp, but it wasnt designed to take it constantly (like everyday driving). International doesnt even use that engine, that should tell you something there! You really cant bomb a 7.3 afther fall '01 because they used powdered metal rods (PMR's) The PMR's are only capable of about 500hp. Before then they uses forged steel rods. PMR's will never bend (stock), they are that strong, but at the same time that are very weak when it comes to adding hp. Too much hp, such as 600hp, will probably just shatter the rods. The '01.5 -up 7.3L will last a lifetime if kept stock. Thats why my truck is completely stock.
Ever heard of the VT365? Thats Internationals name for the 6.0L, and its found in plenty of medium duty trucks.
Yep sure have.... I frequent the international dealer near me, Archway International St. Louis, MO. Ive always inquired about the 6.0 and the main reason why I wont ever buy one is because, they, meaning the dealer, said that that engine was not the engine of choice and is only in a handful of medium duty trucks. That engine was formed especially for the ford super duties. Was told from the horses mouth this year at the Powerfest Rally the exact same thing during the engine plant tour. "That is was engineered especially for fords super duty trucks" They dont even use the 6.0 in generators, boats, busses, trash trucks. Heck, when you dont see the 7.3 (t444e) you will see the dt466 One or the other, I never see the vt365. That motor doesnt even have an overhaul kit available for it (that I know of). IMO, Thats why ford is dumping it so fast. supposedly, the vt365 was an experimental engine that prematurely made its way into the super duties because of contract obligations from both parties. Unless ive been lied to, which has happened before, you will be able to count the number of vt365's one one hand within a 10 city radius. at least its they way here in the midwest. Ford really dropped the ball! International even refers to it as "economical" Stock, my truck is making 230hp and 620ft tq.(unconfirmed, never dynod it) no chips, completely stock how you ask, because I dont have the crappy ford cpu, I have a genuine international cpu controlloing my engine. And it was flashed at the international dealer, just thought id throw that in
