Yeah, I regret making that post. I was just keeping in line with the forum (Brand Wars) and figured Bobby needed something to jump on. Too much "Dodge self love" in here... rotfl So when I saw that on PBB, I posted it without checking into the updates since I last saw it. Anyway, I remembered that truck from a while back when it was pushing the limits with a pretty much nothing but a chip. At least that was my memory, but maybe mixing up trucks after all this time. And for some reason I didn't even think about them having gone to drugs, though I should with that time. I should have checked into it better before making the post. Oh well...
You can no longer get any Dana axle in any Dodge, so those points are moot. When you could, they had funky spline counts, like 32 spline D60s and D70s, and in most cases the axles from those Dodges are among the least desirable on the market. Don't forget the failure prone CAD, when Ford has and still does have manual hubs on their trucks, and an auto hub option for those that are lazy is still superior to a failure prone cad that still allows the parts to turn. Here's a picture of it for you. Makes the Dodge 4 link look like garbage in my opinion. Both setups do the job, and it it makes for a nicer ride, so be it I suppose.....but as you know I'm not a coil spring fan at all, I like leaves. I don't care for the newer ones. I think that if I'd had the money in 02, I would have jumped all over one. Real D60 up front, the 7.3, ZF, and Sterling 10.5. The Dodge truck is the best truck on the market right now (also the newest restyling) so I went with that. I think I'm going to really like it. As you can tell, I'm not brand loyal, I just want a truck that I'll enjoy for a long time...and for me, I think the Dodge was it at this time.
Front suspension strength? Please. Its a proven leaf setup, I dont think any strength, or lack of strength issues are found between either Dodge or Ford, we all know Chevy isnt part of the argument. The same transfer case is found in both Dodge and Ford, the NP271. While I do agree that the cast iron case of the NV would be nicer than the ZF, I highly doubt that you could find an application to stress the ZF trans to a point beyond what the NV would take. they are both extremely stout transmissions. As was already brought up, the D60 found in the front of Fords is 35 spline, with a 9.75 ring gear, and has manual locking hubs, a unit that is arguably stouter than the Dodge unit. A D80 in a 3/4 SRW truck is damn beefy. That is beyond debate.
I relize AAM axles are being used now, I'm not a fan of that and prefer the Venerable Dana axles. You already know I am not a fan of the 3rd gens anyway, and I hardly ever refer to them when I am stating something about a Dodge vehicle. My interest is in the 2nd gens, not the 3rd gens. Dodge did use some funky spline counts but that doesn't bother me, they are still very stout, and are proven to hold up. You can make a big deal about the CAD system but it doesn't bothe me one bit. If it ever fails I'll either replace the failing part and go another 100K miles or install a posi lock. Ford guys can have the locking hubs, I have them on my K5 and thats plenty for me. I'm not impressed, those coils look like something that belongs under a Japanese 1/2 ton. I prefer the much larger coils under my Dodge. The links look goofy to me and would seem to me that they would get hung up on something like a rock. Tim, If you like talking about how you think this and that is better on the Ford than why didn't you just buy a 2002 Ford then? Sure, you'd have a PSD instead of a cummins but according to you wouldn't the rest of the truck make up for the lack of an ISB?
I'm not a fan of leaf springs and prefer coils, but I would agree the Ford leaf setup is a proven system. As far the D60 goes.... I know the '05 model is a 35 spline unit but are you saying they all are? Since the retirement of the 50? As far as the manual hubs, the Dodge has flanges with the CAD system and this is a strength topic, not a reliability topic. How about bearing strength on the Ford 60's? I'm not trying to convince you, or anyone else, that the Ford truck is a bad one...because it's not. I originally wanted a Ford PSD and just barely chose a Dodge Cummins over one. I just think that Dodge nailed the drivetrain Catagory on the head(2nd gens).
Better swap that AAM 14 bolt out of your K5 then, and the front 10 bolt too. Oh...I guess AAM axles are only ok when they're under GM? CADs are proven so strong and reliable...that they don't use any sort of axle disconnect at all anymore. Springs are not designed to look beefy, they're designed to work. Those work fine, to say they're insufficient by appearance is ignorant and uninformed. I have a crawler, I'm not exactly going to drive my new truck over rocks...but those radius arms offer just as much ground clearance, if not more, than the Dodge parallel 4 link, with what appears to be approximately twice the strength. I wanted to buy a Ford in 2002. I really wish I would have now, I would have been able to afford it...I just told myself I couldn't, and didn't buy it. I wish I would have now. I wanted a new truck now...and besides, I looked EVERYWHERE in the country for a decent Ford or Dodge 4wd, 1 ton, SRW, 6 speed Diesel pickup, used. I found two that interested me within 500 miles...and I drove 6 hours to drive them. One was an 04 Dodge with 12k miles, NV 5600, and 4.10 gears for $33k. I wasn't impressed with the acceleration so I walked. The other was a '99 Ram 2500 regular cab which I didn't care for, but what made me walk is that they wouldn't loan me any money to buy it. I had them talked down in the $13k range and they wanted to get me to buy it, but I finally was able to get out the door and away from them. They thought since I drove 400 miles to look at it, that I automatically was going to buy it, which wasn't the case in that instance. No regrets at all in buying the new Dodge. It's a fine truck.
I didn't say they aren't any good. I just prefer time and tested iron. I like having a "60" up front, and a D70. I'm sure the new axles are just as good and will find out when I unfortunately have to move up to a later model pickup in few years when it's time to sell my current 2nd gen. Big deal. The CAD system doesn't have a problem with breaking, it's engaging. I prefer not to have everything spinning up front. If/when my system fails I'll replace the failed part and go another 100K. One thing I like about 3/4 and 1 ton pickups over 1/2 tons is everything is larger. Rear ends are bigger, tires are usually one size larger, big beds, big motors....IMHO that looks cool and the big monster coils on the dodges is icing on the cake in the looks department. That is obviously not very important, but I like the beefy look. I never said they're insufficient because of the way they look....I said they look silly. I don't just tow my toys with my pickup, I use it around the ranch and drive over levies iinto the rice field and lots of uneven ground. I completely disagree, those giant radius arms look like they hang a LOT lower than the Dodge bottom arms and could get hung up, I've heard numerous comments about this in other threads when the '05's came up at CK5. It may be slightly stronger, but only has two connected points at the frame. I prefer a "4" link and, from my knowledge, Dodge has never had a problem with strength in the suspension department.
A balljoint, 32 spline Dana 60 is not time and tested iron...it's the appearance of time and tested iron with crap on the inside. If telling your buddies that makes you feel warm and fuzzy inside, I'm happy for you. waytogo The new axles are pretty much the same as what comes under GM trucks, with some minor appearance differences. Basically my new truck has a 14 SF up front and the bigger 11.5" 14 FF in the rear. I didn't buy a 4wd truck to end up stuck when it wouldn't engage. If I wanted a 2wd truck, I'd have purchased one, they're quite a bit cheaper. The outer axleshafts are still spinning anyway, all the time, every day, everywhere you drive. So, what you meant was, "I prefer for my front driveshaft not to be turning." Me personally, I prefer for nothing to turn. If something is going to turn, it might as well be all of it. If the, "beefy look" sells you on a pickup, great. waytogo I guess all those track bars I sold when I worked the parts counter, and all those people complaining that their rigs wander all over the road aren't suspension strength related complaints. waytogo
Hmmm, which one of the big three is the only one who doesnt make a truck beyond 1 ton? Ill give you a hint, it starts with "D" and ends with "odge".
rotfl So? I have no interest in medium duty trucks. We weren't even talking about medium duty trucks anyway.
But I do think it's a fair point. Chassis cabs are the bassis for the *real* working class "light duty" truck. Utility beds, lifts, smaller dumps, and cargo vans put more hurt on a chassis than much of anything that can be done with a regular bed. If they don't go after that market, which is pretty much a slam dunk since you only have to take off the bed and make relatively minor changes, then maybe that does say something about their confidence? What else could it be? That Cummins engine would make it a very popular vehicle in the chassis cab market I would think (assuming they can deal with the trans issue and reputation). <shrug> :dunno: And I was also going to add that they don't even make a real crew cab either, just to stir the pot.
Wrong, it is time and tested iron because it's been under the HD Dodges for years and has done a good job. Don't act stupid Tim, like I said, I prefer a 60 because it's time and tested iron. I know whats under the new trucks, I've seen them up close. Neither did I.... I completely disagree, if something has to turn I prefer the least amount possible. Not having a front driveshaft that is always spinning is a big plus to me. It's not that, it's just something that is a by product of an HD pickup, but a good by product. Ya ya ya, everyone knows about the crappy track bars....but a little wander on the highway is different than the raw strength of the suspension system.
Lets let that go. I think the points are made and we don't need this to degenerate into an argument on the details.
LOL, I guess so, but it is the "Brand Wars" forum. But "Wars" or not, after I see basically the same thing back and forth, getting more "short" with each other each time, it's time to stop... And speaking of Brand Wars... You see how these Dodge guys are? There are SO MANY problems with the Dodges that the Dodge guys are arguing among themselves as to which has the WORST Dodge... rotfl rotfl rotfl rotfl
C'mon now, you ordered a 6.0L truck, play nice. rotfl And you, Russ, with your IFS self.....rotfl rotfl rotfl waytogo
