max boost pressure

Well it depends on your power goals. Anything over about 400-450hp... especially if your towing, I'd recommend doing O-rings or Fire rings. This is for a reliability issue. With either of those options you NEED Studs. ARP is one brand, A1 is another. I don't like the ARP due to the compounds they used in their steel. I've had the threads desinigrate (sp) on peoples trucks. No failures, but they sure weren't something I'd want.

My situation.... My first one... I saw comming. It happened back when 600hp was unheard of. After that it was quite a few issues. The Studs/gasket that blew between cylinders...I still have no idea why.

Boost... I donno... which time? The guage I had for most of them was a 35psi guage, that even after 2 years of sitting still reads almost 2psi. It has been wrapped around that many times. My estimates due to the ammount of fuel I was running at the time... probably close to 50psi on the stock turbo.... I don't recommend that....

 

I don't know what O-rings or fire rings are. So you like the A1 studs? I couldn't find them. The only ones I could find were ATS and ARP. This is something I need to look at because with a different turbo I'll be approaching 450 hp.

 

A1 Studs are made for Haisley Machine to their specifications.

An O-ring uses a groove cut in the head with a stainless steel wire tapped into place. Used with a stock Cummins headgasket, it adds more Pressure Per Square Inch to the combustion sleeve to assure a better seal. BUT, with this you need the studs to make sure you have enough clamp load to properly crush the gasket.

O-rings are where you cut a groove into the head and the block. You then use a specially cut headgasket (starts out as a cummins gasket) with Solid Stainless Steel rings. The rings sit in those grooves and get crushed to take the place of that combustion sleeve in the gasket.

 

did you mean fire ring in your second paragragh? which do you prefer and why? Do they both serve the same application...better seal? which is better/ more expensive?

 

Yes I did, sorry I was in a hurry when I typed that in.

I personally prefer Fire Rings. In my opinion you are just weakining a stock gasket with an O-ring. Although guys really haven't had that many problems with them.

It is more expensive to Fire Ring than to O-ring. O-ringing you just use a factory headgasket (about $100 from cummins) and get someone to cut the groove in the head, and obtain the proper stainless wire.
Fire Rings you are cutting both grooves, which will cost more to machine as well as the additional cost of the headgasket. Which as I recall is about $250.

 

Are both grooves machined into the head? What is the cost on that...does the head have to be sent out to a machine shop? Who makes the gasket? Are we looking at a grand for the whole operation? Don't you think from our previous discussion that as I approach 475 hp and 50 lbs of boost I need to do this in conjuunction with the head studs?

 

If you are still, running the stock turbo you are no where near 500hp. 50psi is 14psi more than the turbo was designed to produce. 36psi is the max before it starts to superheat the air and you actually just produce more smoke and less power.

A fire ring set up is a .015 groove in the BLOCK and .015 in the head.

At Triple D Performance we charge $600 to cut the grooves. It's more to remove the head and have the head resurfaced. The studs run about $450, the gasket as I recall is $275. The studs and gasket are from Haisley Machine. The studs are made for Haisley Machine by A1. We have tried ARP's studs and do not trust them.

 

ok, here's why I asked, right now I'm running the comp box along with exhaust and air filter. I took my 120 hp injectors out because I was having trouble and they gave 150 hp injectors no charge. So...before I put those back in I was going to go with a different/bigger turbo. By my calculation that should put me somewhere between 450 and 475 hp...hense my question about studs and fire rings, I want to make sure I'm taking the proper percaustions before adding the injectors and turbo components.
By the way, I forgot, where are you guys located?

 

We are located in Coon Rapids MN. (just moving into a new shop)

Edge Comp with those injectors and a SPS 62 should put you in that range, but you really will have to deal with headgasket issues. Your right by not installing those injectors.

I'm trying to think of who is in your area that can help you with your headgasket.

If you just wanted O-rings, you can ship your head to us and we can get the head cut and cut the O-rings then ship it back to you.

 

thanks, for right now I'll keep doing the homework see what I want to do. In the mean time let me know if you know of a good shop close. I know you and I talked about turbos before, I gather you really like the sps 62 for my set up? Any experience with a Garrett?

 

Running just a genaric Garrett or Holset turbo won't give you the performance you are looking for. There are MANY turbos out there right now that are great turbos. I really like the Industrial Injection stuff. Right now they are at the top of the game and have great customer service. We at Triple D are running them on our own trucks as well as our race truck.

The SPS62 for your set up should put you in the upper ends of it's map, but the next step is going to take a fair ammout more fuel.

 

I just blew my stock HG with ARP studs on a maiden voyage with this Quadzilla beta box........boost was cruising past 60 mark last time I saw it. I knew it was coming, actually I'm surprised the stock HG has taken as much as its taken. o-rings are coming.

 

Every time I think I have a handle on a good game plan you guys throw me a new curve....what do you mean I'll need more fuel? Even with the stage fives and a comp box? I really don't want any more hp than what adding the turbo will give me. My only concern at this point are the temps, hell I was thrilled with the hp I got without the new turbo. I have a south bend clutch and don't want to exceed it's limit of 450hp and 1000lbft.

 

The SPS62 will fit your needs quite well. It's good for 525hp as I recall. The next step is a pretty good jump and runs you up over 650hp as I recall (I'm not near my specs right now) To be happy with the spool of the bigger turbo you'd need more fuel.

The SPS62 would be fine.

 

I thought one of the "pluses" of the SPS62 was it's excellent spool up characteristics, so let me understand, with my set up, and adding the 62, will my spool up be slower than what I have now with the stocker? Or will I have to add even more fuel? And if so in what application? thanks!

 

Any aftermarket turbo will spool "slower" than your stocker. If you flat out mat it to the floor the HX35 you have will spool faster than the SPS62. But not by much. The SPS62 will spool to say 35psi from 10 psi faster. Once you get it going it's VERY responsive.

I also found out that I was wrong on the HP rating... it's good to 600hp.

The nice thing about that turbo is, it will spool well with your set up and still allow you to "grow" should you decide you want more power.