First off I can't believe how many posts were made since I was just on two hours ago and don't have the time to respond to everyone, so sorry if I miss you. rotfl FIrst off, for a diesel the new 6.0 is VERY quiet, along with the Dmax. My neighbor has an '04.5 Harley Edition SD with the 6.0 and I joke with him that he has a gas engine because it definantly doesn't sound like a diesel. Second, you are COMPLETELY over agzadurating about how loud a 2nd gen Cummins is. I can stand next to the hood of my truck outside with it running and hold a conversation at normal voice levels, they aren't NEAR as loud as you say. Inside the cab and I can barely hear the engine at all, infact, The turbo is almost louder than the engine itself with a liberal amount of throttle. I spend half of my day on the phone working with customers/employees/parts people and never have a problem with my cell in my pickup. I may be in the minority here with liking the sound of 2nd gen but take a little trip over to TDR.com. THere are TONS of people that prefer the sound of a "normal" volume cummins engine at idle. Don't get me wrong, I'm not someone that approves of the idiots buzzing up and down your street at all. I've noticed my sound tolerance has gone down over the last few years, it was a treat going from the Blazer with dual 40 series and headers to a nice and quiet Cummins Dodge. To sum that up for me, from what I have heard, the Dmax and new PS isn't much louder than say the 8.1L BBC, or the Ford V10, if any louder at all. I like that you can tell I have a diesel under the hood just by hearing it and not having to look for Badging. Now that the weather is warmer, I get a kick when I see the PSD and DM guys rolling up their windows at stop lights next to me. imp: BadDog, You always like to bring up my K5 for some reason. This is towrig.com and my K5 has nothing in common with my Dodge besides both being a 4wd vehicle. If you would like to talk about what you don't like about my K5 do it over at CK5 like everyone else there or shoot me a PM. After reading your novel on page 4 I pick up a sence of "belittling" of someone doing something for looks. Don't get me wrong, I think it's silly to lift a 1/2 silverado to the moon on IROCKs or boggers but a lot of people I know that have HD pickups are not concerned with towing, they are lifting and modifying for two reasons.... 1)To pull better at the pulls and put down lower E.T's 2) To make the truck look nicer. :bling: You make points about how all that effects towing performance, like I said, towing means little to them. Now don't think I'm in the same catagory, I bought my pickup mainly for towing, more power, and good fuel mileage. I would like to lift my Dodge but only maybe 3" or so with 305's on 10" wide rims(maybe you now can see why I am tired of the K5 comments), that should hardly make a difference towing. As far as the noise levels, if you are still interested in that refer to what I wrote to Shaggy. Don't get me wrong either Russ, I like you and out of all the internet members that I know on any board, I respect you and a few other more than anyone. You are a smart, down to earth guy with a lot of experience in life and I look up to people like that, especially for how young I am. I don't however appreciate the "stick poking" sometimes. oke:
Would you like an award? I'd like to have a CAT engine but that won't happen unless one of the three use CAT or I actually have so much money I can afford to stick one into a newer truck. I originally had the idea of using a CAT motor and converting a Crew Cab long bed 4x4 Chevy from the late 80's but after I figured out what it would cost plus the factor that you have a certain amount of unreliability there because it's a custom job, etc.....it was just cheaper to have a new truck fully loaded with leather and an engine almost as good as a CAT for less money, less labor, and a whole lot less time.
Is this possible? That would pretty much seal the deal for me to get a 3rd gen in a few years if there could be a somewhat simple way to program out that multi injection deal and have it sound like a good 'ol cummins.
That was one of the major selling points for me to buy a Dmax. I also wanted to look at dodges but the wifey didn't want a Dodge. I like the look of the new Dodges but the quiet engine and auto in GM. This is the classic case of what ever you prefer in a vehicle. I have the 4" lifted 35" tire wearing tow rig with my old Ford. I just had the 460 and was getting tired of climbing up into it daily to go to work, clients couldn't get in easy etc. It also just didn't handle towing like the Dmax, Course I didn't know this till after I bought the new truck. The Dmax is much better handling mainly because it sits almost a foot lower. BTW I know some long time Dodge fans that are looking at the GM trucks simply because they like them being quiet and the "nicer" interior. I also know people that only buy Fords because everything else sucks. They won't even think about looking or reading about another brand. To each thier own. I bought the GM for the quiet motor good auto and nice interior. The front suspension has it's down falls but it also has its' pluses. Just like Dodge and Ford have their positive and negative points.
Ok, sorry Bobby, I'll try to refrain from poking you any more, at least today... My main goal was always just to contrast your "Dodge/Cummins is the winner hands down" tone and it just got out of hand. And the reference to the K5 was just elaborating on your general outlook I was trying to describe, and the fact that it is consistent (IMO much better than some people who randomly bounce around not knowing what they like). And not belittling, just trying to clarify where we are each coming from. The only thing I do belittle in a way (in all honesty) is buying a "tow rig" but not to tow, and then putting big tires on it just for that "off-road look" and sacrificing safety/capability/longevity/and all the rest in the ballance. I fully support the right of anyone who wants to do it, but I think it's just as silly as the "Type R" ricers with big wings and ground effects bolted on, fart pipe exhaust, PepBoys seats with 5 points, and PVC "roll cages" in otherwise stock imports. But what I really find insane is buying a "tow rig" to "tow", and then doing that for looks with all the sacrifcies. Again, I support anyone's choices (within reason for safety), but that to me is insane, much like lifting the crap out of a "serious" off road that is going to be used off road to fit big tires, but then you can't really use the "big tires" because it will flip over due to the excessive CoG. (I know your's was not built for serious off road in the sense I mean, so this does not apply to you even though you may at first think so.) Anyway, that's why I threw all that stuff in. Normally I would probably have edited a bunch of that out before posting, but I had things that needed attention and didn't take the time I usually do. I'm think I'm loosing interest in this anyway (I can hear the applause) so I'll just move on unless something else peeks my attention again.
RJF, have you even heard an '05 PSD? THey are louder than the '04s, I test drove some and was quite surprised at how loud they are, I actually wish they were quiter like the '04s were. In '03 and early '04 they were very quiet, but Ford has removed the pilot injection part of the fuel map for some reason, possibly because it played a role in the 6.0s problems, I'm not sure. Anywho, the 6.0s absolutely sound like diesel engines.
So, I guess I'll go to the dealer and figure it out for myself.:doah: I rode in Jason's CTD Dually from Bakersfield to Rubicon pulling about 14K of 5th wheel and I was really impressed. The only experiance I have with diesels is that ride, the 1982 6.2 I had in my first Suburban, and the diesels we have in the Marine Corps. All I'm going to do with this truck is tow once a month and drive it to work when I don't want to ride my motorcycle in. I'm not a big fan of the Fords becuase I'm a Chevy person but I'm not going to overlook them if they're a better choice for me. So far it sounds like the Ford and Dodge have the best price, Chevy has the best ride, and Dodge has an engine that's been reliable over the years. The small Dodge cab won't effect me at 68" and I do want a really nice riding truck with creature comforts. When I'm not on the trail I want to be comfortable. I want something that I can drive off the lot and not worry about doing any modifications to. Do you think the dealer would let me test drive with my Suburban in tow?
It changes so frequently but I think currently the Cummins is set at 610, the DM is at 605, and the Ford (IIRC) is at 565 or 570.
Dodges are 610 @ 1600 rpm GM are 605 @ 1600 rpm Ford are 570 @ 2000 rpm Richard, remember, you rode in my dodge and the new Dodges have a 1/3 again more torque then mine
That is exactly why, it was fords programming that was screwing everything up on that motor. Ford tried to reprogram it lord only knows how many times, and they still never got it right. For 05 they let International do the programming on the motor, and international went with what works, their tried and true programming. They havent had hardly any problems from the T366E in their medium duty trucks, and its the same motor, just differnt programming.
Fudge I dunno, like 15 maybe? It's a gutless wonder compared to the new trucks but it still gets me everywhere I need to go with 15k behind it. BUT! The biggest plus to an 03 SO is it's ability to mod. Since it is so detuned from the factory you can bomb the hell out of them without doing much harm. The 05 HO's have very little room for mods before a new turbo, etc is needed.
I thought the '05s were supposed to respond very well to chips much like the DMax. Both have the high pressure common rail now, and with the VVT it should make some decent power with chip alone when they market catches up. Then again, I'm way out of the loop on that stuff these days.
The 05's have the exact same engine I do execpt they have different programming and maybe a different turbo, mines HPCR as well. Basically a 610 05 HO is my engine already boxed. So adding more is almost like stacking in a way. The new HO's run hotter to start with as well and keeping EGT's down is near impossible when towing with a box unless your running Twins. You can throw a TST on an 05 and make tons of power for about 20 minutes then it blows up. You run a stock engine on level 10 on a TST and you will be out about 10 grand. But a TST aint your average box, it eats EDGE for breakfast, lunch, and dinner.
