Better things to do than, uh, drive?:doah: Speak for yourself... As for the "getting out of it's own way" part, a manual truck will get out of it's own way no problem when it counts, passing or merging into traffic when shifting isn't required. There's no delay for the TC to lock up and it won't hunt for gears or downshift when it doesn't really need to. I'm not into drag racing 8000 lb diesel pickups, and as far as I'm concerned that's the only thing the auto trans does better. So you want a trans that enables you to be lazy and concentrate on things other than driving? When you're driving, what's more important than driving? Does it really take that much thought for you to figure out what gear you should be in? That's a piss poor reason in my book. Aside from the inconvenience of having to shift your own gears and accelerating from a stop faster, what benefit does an auto give you? This is the wrong thread to debate this issue, but I had to reply. I don't know why any of you even bothered answering Tim's smart ass rhetorical question, other than that he baited you into it.
Hehe, relax Shaggy. I replied to Tim just for fun. And not wanting to shift in stop-n-go city driving is not anywhere near saying "I've got more important things to do than drive ". When I'm driving, there is NOTHING else I'm doing except maybe talking to my passengers. I refuse to even talk on the cell phone (and firmly support the death penalty for those who do without a hands free, and I *am* serious) and I will mess with the stereo or something ONLY if I'm completely in the clear. But at the same time, on the surface streets around town, or freeways in rush-hour or construction or wrecks with all the brain dead drivers slowing to a stop for no reason, I absolutely do prefer to use nothing but the fuel and brake. Shifting is not hard, and when I had a decent left knee, I always preferred a manual simply because of the "feel" (for lack of a better word). Not because of some irrational auto-phobia, or misconceptions about manuals being the only "real transmission", but rather it was because I liked the pros vs. the cons for me and liked the "feel". But even then, dealing with traffic would get really old as I shift up, and down, and up, and down, and up, and down just to cover a city block, especially if it really was *stop* and go AND up hill. All the slipping the clutch to "creep" smoothly and move up 2 car links or what have you. It's just frustrating when all I do in the auto is let of the brake for a few seconds, and reapply. I'll let the "get out of it's way" thing pass. Each transmission has pros and cons in that respect, and they don't all revolve around towing or drag racing, but that's a discussion I don't have the patience for right now.
No, I have nothing better to do than driving. Shifting from one gear to the next is not driving. Holding on to the wheel and watching the road/road sings/other vehicles, keeping yourself from getting into a wreck and not breaking the road laws is driving. I'm not lazy at all, eveyone of my work vehicles have a manual transmission. Our C30 has a pesky 4500 and our F600 Ford service truck is a manual rig. I just get tired of shifting and dealing with the drawbacks of a manual. My personal favorite is being at a stop waiting for traffic in the F600 and the road is slopped and I keep wanting to roll backwards while some pinhead in her Honda comes up and stops 2" from my bumper. . I've driven a couple manual diesels. They are considerably slower than auto versions. Having to deal with turbo lag everytime you shift slows it way down. I'm not saying that it you can't move with traffic but I can easily accelerate quickly for a reason without a liberal amount of "pedal." The tranny and converter are almost always in the right gear when I step on it. I could also see how fuel mileage could suffer with a manual in bad traffic, the auto lets the engine stay in it's powerband and keeps the turbo making boost. I could see how a more liberal use of the throttle could be needed to make the best out of acceleration in each gear, and doing so while not in the powerband and adaquete boost for a short duration, especially for the narrow powered cummins, could make a difference in fuel economy There are a lot more benifets than just drag racing.
A manual trans gets better mileage anywhere, that's just a fact. The auto trans keeps the engine in it's powerband by allowing slippage, creating heat and wasting energy. I'm not sure about the Dodges, but the Fords with manuals get 2-4 MPG better in any situation, not just on the highway.
Now that I'll give you, when *properly driven*. But frankly, most don't get the mileage increase because they can't/won't/don't care to watch the tach and know where it needs to be. It only works as you suggest when done properly. Driven the way most people drive a manual, you see very little if any improvements in town or mixed mode. Intuitively it seems to me that it might still make a difference on the road, but then again, the Allison and most any modern auto will be "locked" on the road, so I'm not sure how the manual could be better assuming final drive is the same. Also, no personal investigation, but apparently the Allison does manage to close the gap to a very narrow margin in city and mixed-mode as well, even when the manual is driven optimally. Supposedly this was accomplished with additionally converter lockup and ECM/TCM communication keeping things at the ideal levels.
The Allison is breaking the rules of auto trannies, the thing is probably the smartest tranny ever made, IMHO. It's the only auto that I would have gotten in a new truck. I know that it's apples to oranges, but my DD is an '03 Jetta TDI with an auto trans. I've gotten 41.16 MPG lifetime average on it, and that's 62,000 miles in 14 months so it's pretty accurate. A 5 speed version of the exact same car would be getting more like 52MPG on the drive that I make every day. I know it's a much smaller vehicle, but being that my drive is 95% highway and I still get 20% lower mileage than a manual car, it tells me that there are definate inefficiencies inherant to an auto trans, even when the converter is locked on the freeway.
Id have to agree.. for an auto, the allison wins.. If I could get a Ford body with an allison auto and a CTD, Id be SET! Scott
Focual That would be my choise also. Ford body cdc isb engine allason trans. FO=ford body CU=engine cdc isb common rail AL= allason trans all to geather=Focual
